OK, I HAVE HAD IT. Part II

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I made an important point on part one of this thread that seems to have been lost in all of the hub-bub.

Police Officers unfairly get access to restricted items that other civilians do not get access to or are legally restricted from purchasing. A police officer should not get these priviliges, because a police officer is no different from anyone else. If we cannot trust Joe Average to have lock picks, balistic vests, firearms, OC devices, why do we trust the police with them?

Certainly Police officers are just as human as the next guy. We all to often forget this fact. Police officers are ordinary people who choose to take jobs as public servants. The law is supposed to be applied equally to everyone, with no exceptions or special cases.
 
Roscoe,
you can have access to all the tools I have, if you can pass the same background checks I have.
You still would have to explain why you need the stuff, maybe your planning a raid on a few crack/gang houses? Thats what we use our tools for.
As for lock picks, the last time I had a set of those, I bought them out of the back of a comic book when I was ten. I've found a ballistic ram works much better. Why would you want to pick a lock unless you were planning to do something illegal. Get a warrant and knock the door off its hinges.

Flame away, I've lurked here for monthes without registering, to read the posts. Sadly TFL has degenerated into Glocktalk part II. Gone are the days of interesting debate, welcome the days of cop bashing.

ADIOS GUYS, I get motherf#@$ed at work every night, why come here for more of the same? I once believed that a law abiding gun owner was my best ally. Was I an idiot or what? I have even chose to not charge people for illegally carrying a firearm when I found they had no criminal history. They were carrying for the same reason I wish my wife and family could, to protect themselves.
I now see how the general gun owner looks at us. They are not my ally, they hate me as much as any gang banger or dope dealer hates me.
I base this on monthes of reading posts on TFL, Glocktalk and other firearms bbls.

To the other LEOs here, good luck if you chose to stay. I think you have about as much of a chance at cop bashing free posts as you would at the free mumia site.

Intelligent debate is one thing, name calling is quite another. Why put up with it if you don't have to?

best regards, Paul
 
Rosco, I remind my children from time to time that "fair" or "not fair" are terms made up for little kids. The world is not a fair place,it never will be, don't blame it on those whose job it is to try to keep the peace.
 
Paul,

I'm sorry you feel that way.
I respect your opinion; however, not all of us here at TFL sit around and bash LEOs.
Part of the problem might be one of image: it only takes one bad apple to spoil the barrel.

The actions of one, can color the actions of many. True of a few TFLers as well as some police officers, unfortunately. The 'open door' policy here is a good one; as well as the often frank discussions we have.
We do not mean to offend anyone.
Just trying to state our opinions.

I hope you will reconsider...
All the best

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...defend the 2nd., it protects us all.
No fate but what we make...
 
Paul,

Don't do it. You belong here. 'Glad you finally registered.

Roscoe, God bless you little pea-pickin' heart ... you just don't get it!

All that stuff you're talking about is STUFF! Who cares?

You seem to think that an important point in your post was overlooked, but it wasn't. It just doesn't matter to anyone who read it. Get it? No body cares about the stuff the police get to have that we don't. What we care about is whether they are the enemy or not. Read it again, Roscoe! The enemy, remember? Now here is another thought for you Roscoe. It is not a foregone conclusion that all LEOs are the enemy. Yeah, that's right Roscoe. Some of us don't think that's necessarily true! You back on subject now?

To all you LEOs ... if I had some smelling salts, I'd stick it under your nose and start yelling .. "WAKE UP!" How the hell are guys like me supposed to carry this off?

You need to get your butts back here and quit this quittin'. This is inexcusable. Hell, come on back and flame me, but stay!

If I'm off base, maybe I can change my ways (maybe, not likely), but as senior member Joey pointed out to me just the other day, TFL has become an important part of my life. It wasn't planned and I have to squeeze it in around my already full schedule. But I just don't understand good members leaving because of a few dolts. LEOs or not

For the record, I do expect a little more from an LEO. How did you guys get the idea that your alone in this?
 
Sorry you feel that way Paul. This was not intended to be a flame of LEO's. Part of the problem with this trend is that it is the same elitist attitude that the anti-gunners use. "It is good enough for me, but I don't trust you with it." I should not have to show a "need" for anything that I purchase legitimatly. LEO's don't, why should I?

I do not feel that LEO's are the enemy, I just feel that they are a group that must be watched closely.
 
I heard this on the radio the other day:

"If guns cause crime, why do we give them to police officers?"

Also, when asked how they would prefer to die, if a tragic death, the majority of anti's said "gun shot". Fire was the least picked. How hypocritical can you get? (refering to 4-19-93)

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Check Your Premise
 
FVK,

I'm sorry to see that you're leaving. I don't necessarily agree with your statement that all gunowners at TFL are hateful towards LEOs.

Your statement:

"I now see how the general gun owner looks at us. They are not my ally, they hate me as much as any gang banger or dope dealer hates me.

Sir, I am the "general gun owner" and I don't hate you. In fact, I almost became you, in the form of a Tempe Arizona police officer. However, I decided to pursue my interests in the business world. Sometimes I wished had continued down that path (other professions put up with lots of bull too).

I believe what you are seeing posted here in many cases is fear. Fear that our RIGHTS will be taken away. Also that when that happens LE will run amuck.

I would tend to agree. How do I know? Because I have many, many friends in LE. Many of which were HS and College classmates yet were transformed once they finished the academy.

Many became hard charging "I will kick anyone's teeth in" fanatical. I have one friend who I showed how to shoot (he had no prior firearms experience) go from learning from me to saying I have no need for a weapon!?!

That is bull****.

I grew up hunting, had my own rifle at 11, my own handgun at 18 and I still outshoot and out-think that poor SOB. He doesn't understand Jeff Cooper's combat triad. His gun handling has become second rate. I out perfom him and most other LEO in every aspect of firearms use.

He's since changed his tune for the most part. However, let me tell you if he ever came to take my guns he would not succeed. I'm not gushing my bravado here. I'm just stating the facts.

I have just as much right to my firearms as you do. So long as I don't act irresponsibly. Wouldn't you agree?

I also believe that part of Roscoe's rant is why can off duty officers have access to personally purchased hardware that the average citizen cannot.

Let's use the "pre-ban" definition for a AR-15. We can no longer buy new 30 round magazines manufactured after a particular date, flash hiders, particular hardware, etc. etc. Boy those features are much more deadly!! ;)

Yet John Q. Law as an off duty officer (yes, I understand non-civilian) can buy however many he wants and use them however he wants (i.e. not necessarily in connection with his job).

Now obviously you need a vest. I don't think any reasonable person should ask a LEO to work without one. Roscoe, please explain this one.

Would it be fair for me to say that all LEO are homosexual child molesters? STOP!!! I would say such a statement is PATENTLY FALSE. We all know this.

However, I know (knew) a Tempe Police Officer who was eventually arrested by his own (former) department and formally charged with 94 counts of child molestation and suspected of molesting countless others.

Unfortunately his accuser, a 14 year old male was trajically killed before the trail. As you know, without an accuser to face there is no case. This cretin was set free with a clean record. Look around he's probably working LE right now.

The point of this long post is that as Roscoe said "LE are human too." Each and every LEO, YOU included have many of the same human failings as the rest of us. You experience jealosy, envy, hatred (or equivalent), etc., etc.

As such you should not as an off duty general officer (SWAT excluded) be treated differently than the rest of us. Keep your riot, assault, whatever you want to call them guns at the department for use on the job. Not at your personal disposal.

Personally, I don't think an AR-15 is as deadly (whatever that means) as my Remington 760 pump 30-06. I can take out things at much greater ranges and penetrate cars much more easily. I guess others see it differently.

Paul, my last statement is that if I ever see you or one of your brother officers in danger and physically overpowered or outgunned by an obvious A**hole with evil criminal intent, I would without hesitation, risk my un-body armored hide (no matter what my panicked spincter says) to help out.

However, I'm afraid that If I did the officer in question would likely try to shoot me. Or conversely, the department would charge me with something or other after its over.

Give us a break. We're not all bad. Just human.
 
ENOUGH!

TFL's record of support for LEO's is obvious. Just do a search.

Rosco-
I don't even know how to respond to you without choking on my own saliva.

LEO's-
Get over it! Did you think you'd entered a profession where everyone was going to be enlightened enough to understand the fine line you walk? Did you become an LEO for the sound of the brass band? Have you looke at the % of LEO "bashers" in these threads. I count it as overwhelmingly supportive. Anyone wanna refute that?

How do you react when you see the lawyer bashing? The politician bashing? the "Doctors Kill More People Than Guns" threads? The Priests as Pedophiles Statements? The Economy Rape by Big Business? Do you drop out of every public discourse because someone streotypes one group or another?

All-
Get your sorry arses back in this dialogue appropriately or stop bitchin' about it. This thread is closed for redundancy and lack of intelligence.
Rich Lucibella
 
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