OK! A Law Enforcement Scenario. All are Welcome!

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Powderman

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Well, here it is. Everybody chime in!

An officer contacts a member of the public, for whatever reason.

The officer requests and gets ID. He runs the name and DOB. You are standing across the street.

The officer is talking to the person, and everything seems normal. Suddenly, without warning, the officer draws their sidearm, and starts commanding the person to go prone.

You are witnessing this from across the street. The person the officer is contacting is compliant. They didn't even move their hands!

They are totally defenseless--no visible weapons, it's a hot day, and the guy doesn't have a coat on.

So--justified used of force? No? What do you think?

All those on the board with ANY law enforcement experience, do NOT answer or comment.
 
Well chances are the COP got a response stating the guy has an APB out on him. or warrants for violent crimes. possibly with a firearm or other deadly weapon.

Or the guy said something to make the cop feel like he was in danger. IE: I'm going to kill you.

I'd watch, keep my cell phone handy.
 
Or you never know maybe the guy gave the cop a CCL, and that made the cop panic.

In that case I'd be a witness for the trial...trial when the guy sues the cop.
 
To me, drawing the weapon on someone an officer has reason to believe may be dangerous is one level, and firing the weapon should only be done at a second, much more serious and immediate level of threat.
 
Could be an APB for possible armed and dangerous. I'd watch and get ready to react in case things went south.

I also appear defenseless when I'm carrying a P228 in a SmartCarry. Doesn't mean I'm defenseless.
 
OK, cool. I think that most of you already have an idea of what I was getting at.

This was loosely based on a stop I had, but it wasn't during the day. 3 AM, in an industrial area, a guy on foot in the fog. I think to myself, "Hey, that's not good--the guy has dark clothing, he's going to get hit." So, I stop and contact him, offering a ride. I ask for his ID for the log and the paperwork ( ;) :D ), and he hands me an expired temp ID.

First little red flag.

I ask him to stand put, and I run his name. He starts looking in all directions.

Second, even bigger flag.

Then, he gives me a hard, direct stare (the "mad-dog"). After looking around one more time, his hand starts moving toward the rear of his body, out of my view.

It was quiet, there in the fog. Very quiet.

I only heard three things about that time:

The engine of my Crown Vic.

The slight shifting of gravel as the guy moved a foot to the rear.

The loud click of the safety being disengaged on a Colt 1911 Enhanced as it came out of my holster.

I looked at the guy, and this was what I was thinking:

OK, I've got about seven yards, gun in hand. He's standing with his back to a huge gravel pile; good backstop. Yep--there's the shirt button. Target.

I told the guy, "Face away from me. Hands behind your back, right now." Didn't yell, didn't get upset. I was kinda surprised how calm I was, given the circumstances. I cuffed and frisked; in his back pocket was a large cheap folding knife, and an expired resident alien ID.

Just then, the radio came on with our warrant code.

I responded, and this is what I got:

Felony warrant, Pierce County.
Escapee.
Wanted person, Thurston County.
Convicted felon.
Officer safety advisory--ASSAULT ON A POLICE OFFICER-- :eek:
Advisory to advise INS if subject is contacted or arrested.

Best five seconds of that shift?

As the radio message was going, looking at the guy in the pack seat, cuffed up, and as soon as dispatch finished, simply saying, "Received, one in custody."

Second scenario coming up soon.
 
I would be a good witness. I don't know what is going on, what was said, or what was done to have the LEO act in that manner.

Wayne
 
To add to what Wayne said:

If I had to testify, I would state it how I saw it. No editorializing, no drumming it up. Sometimes the reasons for a cop drawing his weapon are unknown to us.
 
I would escape by any means available, move to a small island in the south pacific, change my name to Jissepe, and sell small hand made pipe cleaner toys to make a living.

It was a mob assasination and I dont want to be caught up in anything like that...
 
All those on the board with ANY law enforcement experience, do NOT answer or comment.
Click to expand...
Hey now - I thought you said we were all welcome!! ;)

Radar engaged - action beats reaction. Survival confirmed for another day, badguy in custody. Time to write a report for the super, sigh.
 
The officer requests and gets ID. He runs the name and DOB. You are standing across the street.

The officer is talking to the person, and everything seems normal. Suddenly, without warning, the officer draws their sidearm, and starts commanding the person to go prone
Click to expand...

He probably came back with felony warrants.
 
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All I can say, is that I can never advocate interfering with something that is happening between two other people that I don't know what is going on, unless it is apparent that one is going to die if no one steps in.

Shoot a rapist you walked up on, it could be two kids playing rough. Shoot a guy telling another guy to lie down on the ground, you may have just shot a cop arresting a killer.

I think, unless you know full well what is going on, and that someone is gonna die from it, you have no business drawing. Be a good witness.
 
Second Scenario

Here ya go...

As a concerned citizen, you keep track of things in the news that affect your neighborhood and your community. You are not nosy, and are not a busybody, simply a person who wants a good place to live--and who would not?

As you pick your morning paper up, you see a story on the front page.

It says that a officer from your city's department has been placed on administrative leave because of a shooting that occurred.

Apparently, from what you are reading, the officer was heading into a convenience store during her shift. She observed an armed man leaving the store. There aren't any more immediate details...

except that the armed man ended up dead, shot twice--in the back.

Thoughts? Comments?

Again, LEO's, no comments.
 
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Whew, tough one. Especially because the officer seemed to have a sex change operation while at the convenience store.
Apparently, from what you are reading, the officer was heading into a convenience store during his shift. She observed an armed man leaving the store. There aren't any more immediate details...
Click to expand...
Anyway, since I'm reading a secondhand account from a reporter vs. witnessing it firsthand like in the first scenario, I'll withhold judgment (unless I'm on the jury in a criminal or civil trial) and trust the investigators, the court system, and the jurors to do the right thing, then read about the results in the newspaper another day.
 
Well, assuming this is a trick question? :confused: I never actually read that the policeman/woman shot the person... it could have been the convenience store owner?

No matter who did it... I don't think it looks good to put 2 bullets in someone's back. I guess you can claim they were looking over their shoulder and running backwards towards you and shooting, but not sure if the jury will buy that one. :D

Is there any partial credit??? :confused:
 
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