I was been working on a set of AK Furniture and since I'm using a totally different Stain than what I usually use on other Milsurp Stocks will this be a problem with the Oil Finish I want to use. I've heard that different Stains on this type of Wood needs a different Oil rather than Tung. I want a Nice Oiled finished, but since I seen conflicting responses I thought I would ask here... Any information would be Greatly appreciated. Thank You. ..Sorry if this posted in the wrong Thread.
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Oil Finishes ?
- Thread starter punchy211
- Start date
I would always test finishes to see if there was a conflict. Different brands may have different ingredients .
I once read that American troops handling captured Japanese rifles with tung oil finish had allergy problems ? Some of today's "tung oil " is mostly linseed oil with a small amount of tung !
It's best to use items from the same brand, much better chances of compatability .
Confused ? I once asked questions of a finish chemist who admitted that he was often confused !!! Test it first.
I once read that American troops handling captured Japanese rifles with tung oil finish had allergy problems ? Some of today's "tung oil " is mostly linseed oil with a small amount of tung !
It's best to use items from the same brand, much better chances of compatability .
Confused ? I once asked questions of a finish chemist who admitted that he was often confused !!! Test it first.
There's Pure Tung Oil, Tung Oil Finish and Polymerized Tung Oil. The former is from squeezing the seed of the Tung Nut. Tung Oil Finish has metallic drying agents, thinners and/or less expensive oil additives(Tru-oil is one of these.). Polymerized Tung is partially cured Tung Oil to make it dry faster.
Typical AK stocks will not really benefit from the time it takes to properly apply Pure Tung Oil. Pure Tung Oil goes on in thin coats, over several days with 24 hours drying time between coats, with a clean lint free cloth and rubbing it in until the wood is warm to the touch. Brings out the grain of the wood(that most AK stocks don't have) and creates a shiney, hard, waterproof, finish. The more you rub in, the shinier the finish.
"...had allergy problems..." Nut allergy's. Tung Oil coming from a nut. Some of those can be fatal too. Knew a guy who died in a taxi on his way to the hospital after eating pizza thought to have peanut oil in/on it, in the Officer's Mess, long ago. Just a young guy too.
"...Most Russian weapons..." Lot of 'em are just shellacked. Cheap and easy to apply.
Typical AK stocks will not really benefit from the time it takes to properly apply Pure Tung Oil. Pure Tung Oil goes on in thin coats, over several days with 24 hours drying time between coats, with a clean lint free cloth and rubbing it in until the wood is warm to the touch. Brings out the grain of the wood(that most AK stocks don't have) and creates a shiney, hard, waterproof, finish. The more you rub in, the shinier the finish.
"...had allergy problems..." Nut allergy's. Tung Oil coming from a nut. Some of those can be fatal too. Knew a guy who died in a taxi on his way to the hospital after eating pizza thought to have peanut oil in/on it, in the Officer's Mess, long ago. Just a young guy too.
"...Most Russian weapons..." Lot of 'em are just shellacked. Cheap and easy to apply.
603Country
New member
Being a woodworker, I have and use a lot of oils and potions and lotions. Just for a plain old oil, Tung Oil is my favorite. You can order a 100% pure Tung Oil from Woodcraft. But, it isn't weather resistant and won't build a finish. If you want something to keep out water, some type of Poly or varnish would work. My personal favorite finish is Waterlox Original Satin. But Minwax Poly will work fine too. It just depends on how fine a finish you want. Probably Waterlox is a bit of overkill for an AK.
Don Fischer
New member
AK furniture? What has that got to do with finishing a stock?
Im going to experiment with Danish oil in the near future. It is part linseed oil, thinner, varnish, and a little tung oil mixed in. It dries much faster than true tung oil and it penetrates well. I've heard very good things about its use on knife scales, and its quicker to work than most others as you can get a beautiful finish in 4 or 5 coats with a day dry time between coats. So I have been told by someone who makes beautiful knives, and I will confirm soon.
603Country
New member
For many years, my favorite finish on Walnut was Minwax Antique Oil. It was recommended to me by a fellow that had taught woodshop in high school for 35 years. Goes on great, can be used in wet sanding, and dries overnight. Then, on a whim, I bought some Watco Danish Oil and tried that. I does seem to penetrate better, though I can't be positive of that. It dries slower than the Antique Oil, so do be aware of that as you are adding coats. Finally I went back to Antique Oil. I do have a slight preference for the Antique Oil, due to the final look of the finish.
I have two 22 lever rifles with Antique Oil stock finishes, and they look great. Not a waterproof finish though, nor is Danish Oil.
I have two 22 lever rifles with Antique Oil stock finishes, and they look great. Not a waterproof finish though, nor is Danish Oil.
You don't reveal what your stain is, but I used Formby's Tung Oil Finish, which I've seen described as a "wiping varnish", on a stock stained with RIT dye.
Application of the finish is easy, I don't think it can be screwed-up if you're the least bit patient, and it turned out great.
I've used the same stuff on handgun grips that look a bit dry, and have never had issues with incompatibility, though that doesn't mean nobody ever has.
Application of the finish is easy, I don't think it can be screwed-up if you're the least bit patient, and it turned out great.
I've used the same stuff on handgun grips that look a bit dry, and have never had issues with incompatibility, though that doesn't mean nobody ever has.
You'll find a lot of the above comments condensed and resolved or corrected in Bob Flexnor's book, Understanding Wood Finishing. The table on Page 84 is one I refer to for information about oils. For protection he says pure Tung Oil is poor until you get to 5 or more coats, with sanding required between coats to produce a satin sheen. It's plus side is that it penetrates deeply. It's downside is that it is softer and slower to cure than BLO, with several days or a week needed between coats.
LO and BLO, on the other hand, are rated poor for protection in any quantity. Anyone who's had water marks on a linseed oil finished stock knows it picks water up easily. It's the Hoppe's #9 of wood finishes: the smell brings back great memories, but its function is outclassed by more modern formulations.
Tung oil finishes—as opposed to tung oil itself—are finishes that look like a tung oil finish when they are done, but need have no actual tung oil in them at all. It's a marketing gimmick in a sense.
Polymerized oils are oils that have been heated to hot oven temperatures in an oxygen-free atmosphere and held there to react for awhile. This causes polymeric molecular cross-linking to occur. Cross linking is why a resin hardens and becomes strong during drying, but air drying randomly makes some molecules cross-link longer and stronger than others, leaving more and less water resistant spots, while pre-cross linking by heat guarantees a minimum dried molecular length for greater strength and for consistent water resistance. This also leaves less additional cross-linking to be done by curing, so it speeds drying up. The downside is the faster drying means penetration is only medium, so the finish is nearer the surface. The finish is glossy.
Flexnor says Birchwood Casey Tru-oil is a polymerized oil. Polymerized oils provide good protection if they are built up. I do not, however, know how the less deep penetrating and quicker drying properties may interact with different stains.
Danish Oil is an Oil-Varnish finish. These finishes provide medium level protection, between linseed and polymerized oil. They can be had either glossy or flat and with and without stain built-in.
Wiping varnish is another good protection level product if built up. A lot of the "tung oil finishes" are this variety. It's cheaper than polymerized oil and doesn't dry quite as fast, but is still fast enough that its penetration, like polymerized oil, is only medium. However, flattening additives can give you the option of a flat finish, where polymerized oils are glossy. Examples would by Watco Wipe-OnPoly, Val Oil, and Fornby's Tung Oil Finish.
Stain interaction requires testing. Just remove the gun from the stock and test patches inside the barrel channel or the receiver inletting or under the butt plate. Somewhere it can't be seen later.
LO and BLO, on the other hand, are rated poor for protection in any quantity. Anyone who's had water marks on a linseed oil finished stock knows it picks water up easily. It's the Hoppe's #9 of wood finishes: the smell brings back great memories, but its function is outclassed by more modern formulations.
Tung oil finishes—as opposed to tung oil itself—are finishes that look like a tung oil finish when they are done, but need have no actual tung oil in them at all. It's a marketing gimmick in a sense.
Polymerized oils are oils that have been heated to hot oven temperatures in an oxygen-free atmosphere and held there to react for awhile. This causes polymeric molecular cross-linking to occur. Cross linking is why a resin hardens and becomes strong during drying, but air drying randomly makes some molecules cross-link longer and stronger than others, leaving more and less water resistant spots, while pre-cross linking by heat guarantees a minimum dried molecular length for greater strength and for consistent water resistance. This also leaves less additional cross-linking to be done by curing, so it speeds drying up. The downside is the faster drying means penetration is only medium, so the finish is nearer the surface. The finish is glossy.
Flexnor says Birchwood Casey Tru-oil is a polymerized oil. Polymerized oils provide good protection if they are built up. I do not, however, know how the less deep penetrating and quicker drying properties may interact with different stains.
Danish Oil is an Oil-Varnish finish. These finishes provide medium level protection, between linseed and polymerized oil. They can be had either glossy or flat and with and without stain built-in.
Wiping varnish is another good protection level product if built up. A lot of the "tung oil finishes" are this variety. It's cheaper than polymerized oil and doesn't dry quite as fast, but is still fast enough that its penetration, like polymerized oil, is only medium. However, flattening additives can give you the option of a flat finish, where polymerized oils are glossy. Examples would by Watco Wipe-OnPoly, Val Oil, and Fornby's Tung Oil Finish.
Stain interaction requires testing. Just remove the gun from the stock and test patches inside the barrel channel or the receiver inletting or under the butt plate. Somewhere it can't be seen later.
Tru-Oil.
Pour a small amount into a clean little jar lid that you can easily dab into with your fingertips. I wear a cheap disposable rubber glove, spread evenly keeping a WET EDGE at all times. Avoid "brushing back" into areas that you've done after more than a few seconds as it begins to set and stop "flowing out" fairly quickly.
Good lighting (side lighting is best) to eliminate holidays. End grain areas will soak it up faster, so pay attention to grain direction when applying.
Pour a small amount into a clean little jar lid that you can easily dab into with your fingertips. I wear a cheap disposable rubber glove, spread evenly keeping a WET EDGE at all times. Avoid "brushing back" into areas that you've done after more than a few seconds as it begins to set and stop "flowing out" fairly quickly.
Good lighting (side lighting is best) to eliminate holidays. End grain areas will soak it up faster, so pay attention to grain direction when applying.