Ohio law allowed Pantera shooting

Some truth to the story. I know in MI you can carry as an employee of a bar, if the owner allows it, you can be a patron of an establishment that gets more than 1/2 of it's revenue from food sales. I have never seen a pub list it source of revenue, but if they have a kitchen, and serve food a good arguement can be made you can carry. You can not drink and carry in MI you will have your CCW pulled for a while, and you can not take a firearm into an entertainment facility that holds more tha 2500 people. I do not know if in a movie theatre, this means all seats in the whole cineplex, or just in the movie you are seeing. The fact that a licensed and trained security person, could not carry a gun, while on the job seems not so bright. You probably wouldn't want every gaurd at the front of the stage carrying, but one on each side of the stage and at some key exits sounds reasonable. I wonder if they could have police officers moonlight, for this purpose. A lot of the changes in the ccw law, about carrying in establishments with food, and alcohol sales, were added to the ccw law recently. Hopefully Ohio can let people responsibly carry in more places.

Here is an interesting article, it is old, but it points out the problems with the media, and the easiest way to stop violent acts. Is with the threat of equal, or more violence, and that a person with a gun, is just about as effective as a police officer with a gun.

http://www.tsra.com/Lott13.htm
 
FWIW - the anti response:

Tragic Shooting Shows Why Americans Must Address Gun Violence as a Public Health Epidemic with a Comprehensive Plan to Address and Prevent All Types of Gun Deaths and Injuries

For Immediate Release

(December 9th, 2004, Toledo, OH)—The Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence released the following statement following the tragic shooting at a nightclub in Columbus, Ohio, where 25-year-old Nathan Gale walked on stage and shot and killed 4 people, including heavy metal guitarist Darrell Abbott, before police shot and killed Gale.

“We want to offer our sympathies and condolences to the victims and families affected by this tragic shooting,” said Toby Hoover, Executive Director of the Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence. “This tragedy only adds to the daily and horrific toll of gun violence in Ohio and throughout our country. Our thoughts and prayers are with these families.

“Although there are many questions still unanswered as the investigation continues, one thing is clear, that this tragic shooting only emphasizes the desperate need for a comprehensive nationwide, public health approach to prevent and reduce gun violence. Until we accomplish that goal, gun violence will continue
- http://www.ocagv.org

This is the canned response from the Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence. It sure looks like it was written to be a "fill in the blank - date/specifics" form letter.
 
Toby Hoover is OCAGV

As noted by Ohioans for Concealed Carry, that outfit is pretty much a one-woman band. She published hysterical interviews about how concealed carry was going to create a bloodbath. So far it has prevented many bloodbaths, except in joints with class D liquor licenses of course. :mad:

I would not like to see concealed carry in certain class D establishments but okay in others. It would depend on the situation. Stadiums where they serve alcohol by the drink come to mind as a "no" place, given how upset people get over the smallest slight when their beloved football is involved. :barf:

Division 3 and glad of it,
 
A letter sent to the Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence

ENJOY!


Dear OCAGV,

My name is (My Name). I have worked as both a local law enforcement officer as well as a Federal Agent. I was directed to your website, and, after reading through your information, I have several concerns.

First, I believe that the notion that laws affect criminal behavior is a misguided one. In fact, the very definition of the word "criminal" is a person who chooses to disobey or ignore laws. So, if your goal is to prevent criminals from carrying guns, laws are not going to prevent this. If your goal is to make Ohio SAFER for criminals choosing to rape, murder, mug, rob, burglarize, steal, or otherwise cause mayhem, then your proposals are right on target. After all, if the people who choose to follow the law are disarmed, then the criminals will have less to fear from the intended victims. My goal, as a law enforcement officer, is to do my best to protect the law abiding public, which is why I choose to encourage law-abiding citizens to protect themselves by any means necessary against those who choose to take advantage of others.

A good example of this is the recent tragedy in Columbus, where an entire audience of law-abiding citizens was forced to watch as a single armed assailant (who seemed not to care a whit for your present gun laws) murdered four people. The entire crowd was disarmed into helplessness by the very laws you seek to bolster. Of course, all your organization could muster in response was that this was another example of how "guns" killed people, when actually it was a gun that ended the crisis. Strange how that officer's gun didn't keep on firing into the crowd at random since guns, by their very nature, are designed to kill innocent people?

Another prime example of how disarming the public tempts disaster is the World Trade Center tragedy in which nineteen men armed with nothing more than box-cutters kept entire planes full of passengers at bay until almost three thousand people were killed. And how are we now seeking to prevent future tragedies of this sort? By putting more people with GUNS on the flights. Curious that those guns aren't causing massive casualties by their very presence? Perhaps you should refocus your energies on banning box-cutters?

My thought is that you need to research the societies of England and Australia and see what has happened to their violent crime rates since the right to self protection was taken from the average subject.

England now is seeking to outlaw "assault knives" since in just one of their cities alone last year over 7,500 subjects were assaulted with knives. As well, their rate of "hot" burglaries is up over 60% in which burlars simply knock on the door and stab whoever answers before sauntering in and stealing at will. After all, no one inside is going to be armed for fear of being prosecuted for defending their home through violence!! The only problem the lawmakers there are facing is that 95% of the weapons being used are- you guessed it- kitchen knives!! This, apparently, is the society you seek.

As a law enforcement officer, I would ask that you redirect your energies and seek to increase the penalties for the actual criminal use of firearms. In this way, you will be taking those that choose to ignore the rape, murder, robbery, burglary, and assault laws off the streets. How much sense does it make to disarm the law-abiding public? Not much, in my estimation.

Sincerely,

(My Name)


I wonder what the response will be from the OCAGV???
 
With a name like Tow-Bee Hoo-Ver, she's got to be good. LMAO - what an idjit. I applaud your efforts, Vangaurd - very well done. But, you could just as easily have that conversation with your Lazy Boy recliner, and it would have the same effect, I'd imagine.
 
Great letter VanGuard .45! If only more people felt or thought that way.

I personally have TRIED, really, REALLY tried hard to see these peoples point of view, and it is just ludicrous (sp?). I just can't understand these types of people's stance on things.....to me its unnatural, illogical, and totaly against our rights. How do they justify this crap? It baffles me totally.....
 
They think they are doing good things.........

But they dont think anything through. True to the type, they are extremists. Extremists wont listen, change their opinion, and believe that they are the only ones capable of being right. They dont care that crime will go up, they just want people to have to do what they say. It's not about guns, crime, deaths, it's about power. I am going to have to let this stuff rest for the night, as I am becoming very unnerved.
 
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