OHIO Carry Bills Reintroduced

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Concealed Carry Bills To Be Reintroduced In Ohio

Gun Owners of America E-Mail/FAX Alert
8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408
http://www.gunowners.org

Ohio Action Alert -- February 03, 2001


A number of concealed carry bills are soon to be reintroduced into
the Ohio General Assembly.

Of all the concealed carry bills the Ohio General Assembly will
consider in 2001, only the Vermont-style version, modeled after the
successful Right to Carry law in Vermont, will truly empower law
abiding Ohioans with the right to carry a concealed firearm.

State Representative Tom Brinkman (R-37) has agreed to introduce
Vermont-style concealed carry legislation identical to H.B. 23 from
1999-2000. H.B. 23 was previously introduced by former State
Representative Ron Hood.

As you know, Vermont-style concealed carry would give every
law-abiding Ohioan the right to carry a concealed firearm for any
purpose except to commit a crime.

With this freedom-enhancing approach Vermont consistently has one of
the lowest, if not the lowest, crime rates in the nation.

Other concealed carry bills require you to get the permission of the
government to exercise your Right to Carry. Those bills require
stringent training, questionable background checks and hefty license
fees. But not Vermont!

A Vermont concealed carry law will protect the integrity of our
Second Amendment rights and freedom -- especially that of carrying a
concealed firearm for self-defense and other lawful proposes.

To generate support for Vermont-style concealed carry, it is very
important for you to contact your local State Representative and
State Senator. In addition, it would be a good idea to drop a note
to Gov. Bob Taft too.

If Vermont-style concealed carry passes the Ohio state legislature:

* Law-abiding gun owners will have the right to carry a concealed
firearm for any purpose except to commit a crime.

* Law-abiding gun owners will be shielded from draconian
background checks, unreasonable training requirements and
outrageous licensing fees.

Vermont-style concealed carry can pass but only if the Ohio General
Assembly (including your Representative and Senator) receives enough
pressure from you and the grassroots.

Unfortunately, Gov. Bob Taft is trying to make a "deal" with the
Ohio General Assembly to attach his unconstitutional gun lock bill
to concealed carry. Please let Gov. Taft and the Ohio General
Assembly know that you oppose such a deal.

Here is what you must do:

1. Call, write, fax or e-mail your Representative and Senator.
Insist that they agree to co-sponsor and vote for Vermont-style
concealed carry. Also tell them you oppose any effort to
attach unconstitutional gun lock legislation to concealed
carry. A legislative roster and contact information appear
below.

2. Then call, write, fax or e-mail Gov. Bob Taft and insist that
he support and sign Vermont-style concealed carry legislation.
Tell Gov. Taft that you oppose his scheme to attach
unconstitutional gun lock legislation to concealed carry.

Taft's contact information also appears below.

If you like, you may use the following pre-written messages or use
them to craft your own messages to your legislators and Gov. Taft.

Make sure to include your address for the legislators so they know
you are a constituent.

----- Pre-written message -----

Dear Representative _______________________,

As a law-abiding Ohioan and a strong supporter of the Second
Amendment, I urge you to do everything in your power to support the
passage of Vermont-style concealed carry legislation.

You can do this by agreeing to co-sponsor Rep. Tom Brinkman's
concealed carry bill and voting for Vermont-style concealed carry at
every opportunity.

However, I oppose any effort to attach any type of unconstitutional
gun lock legislation to concealed carry.

Gun Owners of America will keep me informed on this legislation. I
will be watching your actions.

Very truly yours,

___________________________


----- Pre-written message -----

Dear Senator _______________________,

As a law-abiding Ohioan and a strong supporter of the Second
Amendment, I urge you to do everything in your power to support the
passage of Vermont-style concealed carry legislation.

You can do this by agreeing to co-sponsor a Senate bill identical to
Rep. Tom Brinkman's concealed carry bill in the House and voting for
Vermont-style concealed carry at every opportunity.

However, I oppose any effort to attach any type of unconstitutional
gun lock legislation to concealed carry.

Gun Owners of America will keep me informed on this legislation. I
will be watching your actions.

Very truly yours,

___________________________


----- Pre-written message -----

Dear Gov. Taft,

As a law-abiding Ohioan and a strong supporter of the Second
Amendment, I urge you to do everything in your power to support the
passage of Vermont-style concealed carry legislation.

You can do this by agreeing to sign Rep. Tom Brinkman's concealed
carry bill and urging the passage of Vermont-style concealed carry
at every opportunity.

However, I oppose your gun lock legislation and oppose any effort to
attach unconstitutional gun lock language to concealed carry.

Gun Owners of America will keep me informed on this legislation. I
will be watching your actions.

Very truly yours,

___________________________


Ohio House of Representatives

FAX: 614-644-9494

Dis Name Pty Phone E-Mail

01 Willamoski R 614-466-9624 Rep01@ohr.state.oh.us
02 Raga R 614-644-6027 Rep02@ohr.state.oh.us
03 Blasdel R 614-466-8022 Rep03@ohr.state.oh.us
04 Latta R 614-466-8104 Rep04@ohr.state.oh.us
05 Distel D 614-466-1405 Rep05@ohr.state.oh.us
06 Schaffer R 614-466-8100 Rep06@ohr.state.oh.us
07 Carmichael R 614-466-1474 Rep07@ohr.state.oh.us
08 Smith D 614-466-7954 Rep08@ohr.state.oh.us
09 Woodard D 614-644-5079 Rep09@ohr.state.oh.us
10 Key D 614-466-1414 Rep10@ohr.state.oh.us
11 Jones D 614-466-5441 Rep11@ohr.state.oh.us
12 Barnes D 614-466-1408 Rep12@ohr.state.oh.us
13 Oakar D 614-466-5921 Rep13@ohr.state.oh.us
14 Jerse D 614-466-8012 Rep14@ohr.state.oh.us
15 Trakas D 614-644-6041 Rep15@ohr.state.oh.us
16 Kilbane R 614-466-0961 Rep16@ohr.state.oh.us
17 Flannery D 614-466-3454 Rep17@ohr.state.oh.us
18 Sullivan D 614-466-4895 Rep18@ohr.state.oh.us
19 Miller D 614-466-3350 Rep19@ohr.state.oh.us
20 DePiero D 614-466-3485 Rep20@ohr.state.oh.us
21 Beatty D 614-466-5343 Rep21@ohr.state.oh.us
22 Miller D 614-466-8010 Rep22@ohr.state.oh.us
23 Salerno R 614-466-1896 Rep23@ohr.state.oh.us
24 Flowers R 614-466-4847 Rep24@ohr.state.oh.us
25 Goodman R 614-644-6002 Rep25@ohr.state.oh.us
26 Reidelbach R 614-644-6030 Rep26@ohr.state.oh.us
27 Hughes R 614-466-2473 Rep27@ohr.state.oh.us
28 Smith R 614-644-6005 Rep28@ohr.state.oh.us
29 Wolpert R 614-466-9690 Rep29@ohr.state.oh.us
30 Britton D 614-466-1308 Rep30@ohr.state.oh.us
31 Barrett D 614-466-1645 Rep31@ohr.state.oh.us
32 Coates D 614-466-8120 Rep32@ohr.state.oh.us
33 Driehaus D 614-466-5786 Rep33@ohr.state.oh.us
34 Seitz R 614-466-8258 Rep34@ohr.state.oh.us
35 Clancy R 614-466-9091 Rep35@ohr.state.oh.us
36 Schneider R 614-644-6023 Rep36@ohr.state.oh.us
37 Brinkman R 614-644-6886 Rep37@ohr.state.oh.us
38 Allen D 614-466-1607 Rep38@ohr.state.oh.us
39 Strahorn D 614-466-2960 Rep39@ohr.state.oh.us
40 Setzer R 614-644-8051 Rep40@ohr.state.oh.us
41 Husted R 614-644-6008 Rep41@ohr.state.oh.us
42 White R 614-466-6504 Rep42@ohr.state.oh.us
43 Fessler R 614-466-8114 Rep43@ohr.state.oh.us
44 Sykes D 614-466-3100 Rep44@ohr.state.oh.us
45 Williams R 614-644-5085 Rep45@ohr.state.oh.us
46 Coughlin R 614-466-1177 Rep46@ohr.state.oh.us
47 Otterman D 614-644-6037 Rep47@ohr.state.oh.us
48 Roman R 614-466-1790 Rep48@ohr.state.oh.us
49 Ford D 614-466-1401 Rep49@ohr.state.oh.us
50 Perry D 614-466-1418 Rep50@ohr.state.oh.us
51 Olman R 614-466-1731 Rep51@ohr.state.oh.us
52 Fedor D 614-644-6017 Rep52@ohr.state.oh.us
53 Redfern D 614-644-6011 Rep53@ohr.state.oh.us
54 Cirelli D 614-466-8030 Rep54@ohr.state.oh.us
55 Schuring R 614-752-2438 Rep55@ohr.state.oh.us
56 Hagan R 614-466-9078 Rep56@ohr.state.oh.us
57 Boccieri D 614-466-1464 Rep57@ohr.state.oh.us
58 Cates R 614-466-8550 Rep58@ohr.state.oh.us
59 Jolivette R 614-644-6721 Rep59@ohr.state.oh.us
60 Webster R 614-644-5094 Rep60@ohr.state.oh.us
61 Metelsky D 614-466-5141 Rep61@ohr.state.oh.us
62 Manning R 614-644-5076 Rep62@ohr.state.oh.us
63 Lendrum R 614-466-1957 Rep63@ohr.state.oh.us
64 Patton D 614-466-9435 Rep64@ohr.state.oh.us
65 Carano D 614-466-6107 Rep65@ohr.state.oh.us
66 Sferra D 614-466-5358 Rep66@ohr.state.oh.us
67 Latell D 614-466-3488 Rep67@ohr.state.oh.us
68 Grendell R 614-644-5088 Rep68@ohr.state.oh.us
69 Young R 614-644-6074 Rep69@ohr.state.oh.us
70 Callender R 614-466-7251 Rep70@ohr.state.oh.us
71 Schmidt R 614-466-8134 Rep71@ohr.state.oh.us
72 Niehaus R 614-644-6034 Rep72@ohr.state.oh.us
73 Rhine D 614-466-3787 Rep73@ohr.state.oh.us
74 Kearns R 614-466-2038 Rep74@ohr.state.oh.us
75 Womer-Benjamin R 614-466-2004 Rep75@ohr.state.oh.us
76 DeWine R 614-644-6020 Rep76@ohr.state.oh.us
77 Evans R 614-466-1482 Rep77@ohr.state.oh.us
78 Householder R 614-466-2500 Rep78@ohr.state.oh.us
79 Hartnett D 614-466-5802 Rep79@ohr.state.oh.us
80 Peterson R 614-644-6711 Rep80@ohr.state.oh.us
81 Calvert R 614-466-8140 Rep81@ohr.state.oh.us
82 Buehrer R 614-644-5091 Rep82@ohr.state.oh.us
83 Hoops R 614-466-3760 Rep83@ohr.state.oh.us
84 Faber R 614-466-6344 Rep84@ohr.state.oh.us
85 Seaver D 614-466-1507 Rep85@ohr.state.oh.us
86 Gilb R 614-466-3819 Rep86@ohr.state.oh.us
87 Core R 614-466-8147 Rep87@ohr.state.oh.us
88 Stapleton R 614-466-3506 Rep88@ohr.state.oh.us
89 Damschroder R 614-466-1374 Rep89@ohr.state.oh.us
90 Reinhard R 614-644-6265 Rep90@ohr.state.oh.us
91 Sulzer D 614-644-7928 Rep91@ohr.state.oh.us
92 Ogg D 614-466-2124 Rep92@ohr.state.oh.us
93 Collier R 614-466-1431 Rep93@ohr.state.oh.us
94 Carey R 614-466-1366 Rep94@ohr.state.oh.us
95 Aslanides R 614-644-6014 Rep95@ohr.state.oh.us
96 Hollister R 614-644-8728 Rep96@ohr.state.oh.us
97 Metzger R 614-466-1695 Rep97@ohr.state.oh.us
98 Krupinski D 614-466-3735 Rep98@ohr.state.oh.us
99 Wilson D 614-466-8035 Rep99@ohr.state.oh.us


Ohio Senate

FAX: 614-466-7662

Dis Name Pty Phone E-Mail

01 Wachtmann R 614-466-8150 SD01@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
02 Gardner R 614-466-8060 SD02@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
03 Johnson R 614-466-8064 SD03@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
04 Nein R 614-466-8072 SD04@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
05 McLin D 614-466-6247 SD05@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
06 Jacobson R 614-466-4538 SD06@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
07 Finan R 614-466-9737 SD07@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
08 Blessing R 614-466-8068 SD08@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
09 Mallory D 614-466-5980 SD09@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
10 Austria R 614-466-3780 SD10@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
11 Furney D 614-466-5204 SD11@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
12 Jordan R 614-466-7584 SD12@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
13 Armbruster R 614-644-7613 SD13@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
14 White R 614-466-8082 SD14@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
15 Espy D 614-466-5131 SD15@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
16 Mead R 614-466-5981 SD16@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
17 Shoemaker D 614-466-8156 SD17@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
18 Gardner R 614-644-7718 SD18@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
19 Harris R 614-466-8086 SD19@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
20 Carnes R 614-466-8076 SD20@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
21 Prentiss D 614-466-4857 SD21@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
22 Amstutz R 614-466-7505 SD22@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
23 Brady D 614-466-5123 SD23@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
24 Spada R 614-466-8056 SD24@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
25 Fingerhutt D 614-466-4583 SD25@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
26 Mumper R 614-466-8049 SD26@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
27 Vacant R 614-466-4823 SD27@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
28 Herington D 614-466-7041 SD28@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
29 Oelslager R 614-466-0626 SD29@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
30 DiDonato D 614-466-6508 SD30@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
31 Hottinger R 614-466-5838 SD31@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
32 Ryan D 614-466-7182 SD32@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
33 Hagan D 614-466-8285 SD33@mailr.sen.state.oh.us


Governor Bob Taft
30th Floor
77 South High Street
Columbus, Ohio 43215-6117

Phone: 614-466-3555
FAX: 614-728-0170
E-Mail: Governor.Taft@das.state.oh.us


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This is rather typical GOA rhetoric.

Sorry to be a wet blanket but is there any real chance of a VT law passing? Would you be better off arguing for a standard shall issue bill?

VT laws, frankly, sound kind of nuts to nongun folks who might buy the usual shall issue law.

Also, VT is not heaven because of their law. Most folks don't carry there. Most probably don't even know about the rules.
They are protected by their demographics.

The GOA posits an illusory correlation and weakens their case. They have opposed shall issue laws in several states.
In fact, it is said that the VT argument sunk the original MO bill and then the disasterous referendum followed.

I will be harsh and say this is a waste of time and might even burn capital. If you make a stupid argument first, later reasonable ones are discounted.
 
Wow

And I thought >I< was going to have to bite the bullet and say it. I agree with Enoch, on...(rereading now)...every point.

Mike
 
On the other hand...

"VT laws, frankly, sound kind of nuts to nongun folks who might buy the usual shall issue law."

The Vermont laws were forced upon it by a 1903 State Supreme Court case that had the balls to say that their Constitution meant something. A similar situation is germinating in Ohio with Ohio v Feeley (2000). The intro to the Vermont case is as follows:

<snip>

Judgment reversed and sentence set aside, demurrer sustained, complaint adjudged insufficient and quashed, and the respondent discharged and let go without delay.

Cite as State v. Rosenthal, 75 Vt. 295 (1903)

STATE v. ROSENTHAL.

(Supreme Court of Vermont. Rutland. May 30, 1903.)

Exceptions from City Court of Rutland; Howe, Judge.

Andrew Rosenthal was convicted of a violation of an ordinance of the city of Rutland, and appeals. Reversed.

Argued before TYLER, MUNSON, START, WATSON, STAFFORD, and
HASELTON. JJ.

W. H. Preston, State's Atty., for the State.

Joel C. Baker, for respondent
<snip>

Also, VT is not heaven because of their law. Most folks don't carry there. Most probably don't even know about the rules. They are protected by their demographics.
Click to expand...

The vast majority of people don't carry in Arizona either and don't know the rules. Most people who live in Arizona moved from somewhere else.

The GOA posits an illusory correlation and weakens their case. They have opposed shall issue laws in several states.
Click to expand...

NRA opposes Vermont carry. In Ohio, Taft has said he would not sign a CCW permit law. Vermont-carry does not require a permit. Ohio is already and open-carry state. Really, all it needs is a repeal on the loaded weapons in a vehicle ban and strong preemption and you would have a truly open carry State like Arizona.

In fact, it is said that the VT argument sunk the original MO bill and then the disasterous referendum followed.
Click to expand...

Ya gotta give freedom a chance. Lots of people don't like being registered as gun owners, which is what laminated liberty (CCW permits) give you.

Rick
 
RickD - you are typical of many RKBA advocates, you prefer the righteous gesture that has no chance to one that might get through.

If the Gov. won't sign a permit bill then he certainly won't sign this.

I repeat - better to spend your time elsewhere. Get rid of the governor. Make signing a bill, a campaign issue like it was in TX. Where the GOA opposed the CHL bill in a fit of
brilliance.

You make speeches and get outraged as you usually do. I prefer that folks do things that work.

As far as registration, for one thing, since you post all over the Internet, you are so well known that when the time comes, you will see the UN at your house. Or you can FIGHT them or be a guerilla in the hills. Live in the real world and not in the narrow, theocratic advocacy that blinds you.
 
This is how I would like to see events go in the next two years.

  • Push for the passage of this Vermont-style bill in the legislature. This is akin to a realtor asking $130,000 for a $115,000 house.
  • Tell Taft, in no uncertain terms that he will be voted out of office in 2002 if he doesn't allow a CCW reform bill become law. (He can do this without signing, thus keeping his promise.)
  • At the same time, push for the election of a governor who *will* sign and support a bill such as this.
  • Taft will insist that the CCW bill be coupled with a "safe storage" (aka lock up your safety) bill for CCW to become law.
  • We drop the "Vermont-style" and go for the "laminated liberty" version and he drops his "safe storage"
  • We end up with a reform of the CCW laws, which require people to pass a background check and take a safety test to be able to CCW. Coupled with this is a reform of the transportation laws to which RickD made reference earlier. In addition, the "prudent person" laws should remain, for obvious reasons.

The transportation laws are as important if not more important than the CCW laws, IMO.


So. Whaddaya think? A pipe dream, or a possibility?

-Dave
 
Bluesman, that sounds like the way politics actually works, whether we like it or not. Maybe I'll suggest that approach to the sponsoring legislator of our CCW bill here.

Dick
 
CCW laws (in Ohio)

... would be the manifestation of the government's RECOGNITION of our RIGHTS by changing the laws to fit the Constitution.
:)
 
RickD - you are typical of many RKBA advocates, you prefer the righteous gesture that has no chance to one that might get through.
Click to expand...

I am very untypical. I actually go out and pester my state legislators in person.

If the Gov. won't sign a permit bill then he certainly won't sign this.
Click to expand...

It actaully give him an out. He said he wouldn't sign a "permit" bill. This is not a permit bill. As well, all Ohio activists have to do is push a pro-gun definition of the "Prudent Person" which is already enshrined in Ohio law. A prudent person is anyone who is not violating the rights of others. Instant Vermont Carry. Ohioans tried that back in 1997. NRA threatened any legislator who backed it. Thanks, NRA.

Ohio already has the precursor of the court decision in Ohio v Feeley that fomented what we now call "Vermont Carry." The Governor is caught behind a rock and a hard place. A generally pro CCW legislature and a court case citing Ohio's Constitution that could blow up in his Republican-In-Name-Only (RINO) face.

Where the GOA opposed the CHL bill in a fit of brilliance.
Click to expand...

GOA keeps NRA looking moderate. Good for them.

You make speeches and get outraged as you usually do. I prefer that folks do things that work.
Click to expand...

Not giving up the prize before the first negotation is a good plan. NRA trompt into Arizona and gave up our Arizona bargaining chips before the first shot was fired. NRA's lobbylist Darren LaSorte said they would sue if cities used the loopholes as we Arizona activists said they would. A year later and no lawsuit. Arizona activists are now wasting our time picking up the pieces. This is exactly what I want my family left in Ohio to avoid.

As far as registration, for one thing, since you post all over the Internet, you are so well known that when the time comes, you will see the UN at your house. Or you can FIGHT them or be a guerilla in the hills.
Click to expand...

Not to mention two-dozen letters to the editor as well as TV and radio appearances. They already know who I am. This is so they don'th have to know who you are. I, for one, won't be heading to the hills.

Live in the real world and not in the narrow, theocratic advocacy that blinds you.
Click to expand...

My advocacy has changed a lot of Arizona laws and has stopped a few legislators from even introducing anti-legislation or proclaimations. I think I'll stick with what works for me.

Rick
 
Rick,

I can't believe that Enoch called you 'typical.' You, sir, are a one-of-a-kind. (That's a compliment, BTW.) :)

I've been following your actions in Arizona, and am very impressed with the governmental response to the work of your small group of activists. Your tactics may not work for everybody, but they certainly seem to be working for you. (Another compliment.) :)

I agree that the 'prudent person' part of the current Ohio law is going to become a burr in Taft's saddle if this Vermont-style bill comes to the floor. You said, "Not giving up the prize before the first negotation is a good plan." and you're right on the money. (Yet another compliment.) :)

What are the chances that you and I are close to seeing eye-to-eye on this issue. :eek:

I might have to take back some of those nasty things I said in those emails to you way back when... ;)

It's time to make them compromise for a change.
 
Who cares anyways? I carry concealed in Ohio. Of course, I hope that I never have to ever use it, but I think Suzanna Gratia Hupp hope that she never has to use her firearm AGAIN.

If armed guards can carry firearms to protect money, then what value does the Ohio legislature and governor place on my life or my childrens life if I cannot protect them in the same manner?

If you want a pro-gun candidate in Ohio, you will have to stop voting for the left-wing Republicans that nominated the past two governors, Bob Taft and Voinovich. I cannot really tell them apart from our Democrats.

And if Taft runs for governor again, then I ask you to vote for the only pro-gun candidate. I don't know who it will be, but I hope it is Libertarian John McAllister.

And if you still vote for Bob Taft, then you deserve every "storage lock up laws" and whatever else gun control laws our governor thinks that is best for us.
 
Not to go too far off topic, but many of us here have switched tactics. Yes, there are those who still slog it out in the state legislature, but we have found that hammering a few city councils is not a bad way to do things. Many of these bad bills that are submitted in the legislature come about because of the actions of paid City Lobbyists. And the bills that we submit are usually attacked by these same City lobbyists.

As Deputy Fife would say, "Nip it in the bud. Nip it, nip it, nip it."

Another tactic we will be trying is to do some island-hopping by gathering signatures for various petitions in key cities. Lots cheaper than a state-wide initiative. We will create little zones of freedom, or we will make the antis blow a gasket trying to fight it. Either way, we win by winning, or by publicizing our cause and getting more converts.

Rick
 
Well, I see RickD has gone and opened his mouth...again.

For those in Arizona, I am the second, no, better half of the Rick and Tim Freedom Show, appearing at a City Council near you...if you live in Glendale.

What Rick has said about the NRA activities in Arizona is true. He and I cornered Darren LaSorte, our NRA "saviour", during one of their grassroots events. Explained that, as we predicted, cities like Glendale, Tucson and Yuma were trying to circumvent the state preemption law that had just passed...in the bastardized form the NRA supported (basically, allowing CCW permitees more rights than open-carry folks...a no-no in Arizona).

Well, the Gov said she wouldn't sign a clean preemption bill. We said, fine...see you at the polls. In rides Sir Darren, who starts mucking around saying we'll limit this, compromise that...before we even had a chance to bargain with the Governor.

And he said that we (meaning regular gun owners) were backing him.

Well, as you might expect, the compromises allowed it to get passed, making for two classes of gun owners/carriers...CCW holders and others.

And now people like Rick and me try and get people like you to help us pick up the pieces. And, as Rick said, Darren and the NRA are nowhere to be found.

But the NRA is not the only culprit.

Out of over 200 people who have shown up at various times at "non-denominational" monthly gun owner activist meetings that Rick and I helped put together (and held since last September), we have about 4 more people who actually do anything other than whine and bitch...folks who are activists in the true sense...not keyboard cowboys.

4.

Out of 200. (do the math...that's 2%)

Yet the 6 of us have changed policy in Glendale, Tempe, Scottsdale and Phoenix by pestering the city officials with questions, going and checking our firearms (wasting valuable police time), carrying openly in Downtown Tempe (much to their distaste), holding "check your gun in the library" rallies, badgering the Glendale City Council with questions about their policies and demonstrating (via transcripts) that the city lawyer who advised the policy didn't know the law.

And we've had an effect.

If we had about a dozen more bodies, we could be even MORE effective. But for some reason, these folks don't yet understand that forwarding messages and cross-posting news items is not, in my opinion, activism...unless it's accompanied by some sort of action plan (other than the "forward this to everyone you know" crap).

If we had gun owners who'd get off their f***ing asses and call, fax, write, visit, demonstrate, check their guns, etc. ad nauseum, we'd be a formidable force fighting for Freedom.

But they don't. So we aren't.

And George Soros, his billions of dollars and the First Monday 2000 folks are going to steamroll us.

Unlike Rick, I *will* be hiding in the hills. To shoot the yellow bastards who show up and say "how can we help you fight?"

Then I will return and help Rick.

TimW
Phoenix
 
Dang, Tim. Yer a radical.

See ya at Next Tuesday's City Council meeting.

The rest of you can go do whatever it is you do.

Rick
 
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