Oh my goodness. They weren't lying after all. They're just stupid.

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Dave B

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You guys were right all along. They weren't lying, they were simply passing on Iran's fairy tales. It's a good thing that stupidity isn't a crime.

From http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0525-03.htm

An urgent investigation has been launched in Washington into whether Iran played a role in manipulating the US into the Iraq war by passing on bogus intelligence through Ahmad Chalabi's Iraqi National Congress, it emerged yesterday.

Some intelligence officials now believe that Iran used the hawks in the Pentagon and the White House to get rid of a hostile neighbor, and pave the way for a Shia-ruled Iraq.

According to a US intelligence official, the CIA has hard evidence that Mr Chalabi and his intelligence chief, Aras Karim Habib, passed US secrets to Tehran, and that Mr Habib has been a paid Iranian agent for several years, involved in passing intelligence in both directions.

The CIA has asked the FBI to investigate Mr Chalabi's contacts in the Pentagon to discover how the INC acquired sensitive information that ended up in Iranian hands.

The implications are far-reaching. Mr Chalabi and Mr Habib were the channels for much of the intelligence on Iraqi weapons on which Washington built its case for war.
"It's pretty clear that Iranians had us for breakfast, lunch and dinner," said an intelligence source in Washington yesterday. "Iranian intelligence has been manipulating the US for several years through Chalabi."

Larry Johnson, a former senior counter-terrorist official at the state department, said: "When the story ultimately comes out we'll see that Iran has run one of the most masterful intelligence operations in history. They persuaded the US and Britain to dispose of its greatest enemy."...

There. I hope you guys feel vindicated.

db
 
The Iraq Liberation Act
October 31, 1998

STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT

THE WHITE HOUSE

Office of the Press Secretary

For Immediate Release

October 31, 1998

STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT

Today I am signing into law H.R. 4655, the "Iraq Liberation Act of 1998." This Act makes clear that it is the sense of the Congress that the United States should support those elements of the Iraqi opposition that advocate a very different future for Iraq than the bitter reality of internal repression and external aggression that the current regime in Baghdad now offers.

Let me be clear on what the U.S. objectives are: The United States wants Iraq to rejoin the family of nations as a freedom-loving and law-abiding member. This is in our interest and that of our allies within the region.

The United States favors an Iraq that offers its people freedom at home. I categorically reject arguments that this is unattainable due to Iraq's history or its ethnic or sectarian make-up. Iraqis deserve and desire freedom like everyone else. The United States looks forward to a democratically supported regime that would permit us to enter into a dialogue leading to the reintegration of Iraq into normal international life.

My Administration has pursued, and will continue to pursue, these objectives through active application of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions. The evidence is overwhelming that such changes will not happen under the current Iraq leadership.

In the meantime, while the United States continues to look to the Security Council's efforts to keep the current regime's behavior in check, we look forward to new leadership in Iraq that has the support of the Iraqi people. The United States is providing support to opposition groups from all sectors of the Iraqi community that could lead to a popularly supported government.

On October 21, 1998, I signed into law the Omnibus Consolidated and Emergency Supplemental Appropriations Act, 1999, which made $8 million available for assistance to the Iraqi democratic opposition. This assistance is intended to help the democratic opposition unify, work together more effectively, and articulate the aspirations of the Iraqi people for a pluralistic, participa--tory political system that will include all of Iraq's diverse ethnic and religious groups. As required by the Emergency Supplemental Appropriations Act for FY 1998 (Public Law 105-174), the Department of State submitted a report to the Congress on plans to establish a program to support the democratic opposition. My Administration, as required by that statute, has also begun to implement a program to compile information regarding allegations of genocide, crimes against humanity, and war crimes by Iraq's current leaders as a step towards bringing to justice those directly responsible for such acts.

The Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 provides additional, discretionary authorities under which my Administration can act to further the objectives I outlined above. There are, of course, other important elements of U.S. policy. These include the maintenance of U.N. Security Council support efforts to eliminate Iraq's weapons and missile programs and economic sanctions that continue to deny the regime the means to reconstitute those threats to international peace and security. United States support for the Iraqi opposition will be carried out consistent with those policy objectives as well. Similarly, U.S. support must be attuned to what the opposition can effectively make use of as it develops over time. With those observations, I sign H.R. 4655 into law.

WILLIAM J. CLINTON

THE WHITE HOUSE,

October 31, 1998.


Middle East & Islamic Studies, URL: http://www.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast


Ali Houissa, The Middle East & Islamic Studies Bibliographer
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Stupid? I thought you Demos said that Bubba was a genuis or something? :rolleyes:
 
'Don't think that big media tells the real story? A must read from the left - CommonDreams.org.' - Don Imus Daily/MSNBC

Interesting site. I'll spare us the quote from the PETA guy.

And please, no more Clinton. ;)

John
 
I don't remember mentioning Clinton.
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Well of course you didn't mention Clinton. Because if you had, people would understand that the U.S. Intelligence services have believed the same things about Iraq for years.

You just want people to believe that Dubya & Co. are "stupid".

Tell me Dave, how does it feel to have your side of the political spectrum outdone, outflanked, and trounced - each and every day - by someone YOU consider to be "stupid"?

I think that if someone that I considered "stupid" got the best of me, that I would go crawl under a rock from the shame of it all. :rolleyes:
 
If you think about it the US has done Iran a great favor by defeating Iran's two biggest regional rivals: the Taliban(which almost went to war against Iran in the 90's) and Saddam who of course invaded the country.

It's possible I guess. But Iran has its own internal problems. I don't think they wanted an American army on their west and east to compound them. If we succeed there (big if at this point) it will be a nightmare for all those power mad ayatollahs.

In any case we may not have to lift a finger to neutralize Iran. I'm betting that the people of Iran will take care of their own government in due course. There were surprising pro western demonstrations in Iran in recent years, and there are more calls for democratic reforms. The religious leaders and military can't keep a lid on their people forever.
 
"...North Korea is a regime arming with missiles and weapons of mass destruction, while starving its citizens.

Iran aggressively pursues these weapons and exports terror, while an unelected few repress the Iranian people's hope for freedom.

Iraq continues to flaunt its hostility toward America and to support terror. The Iraqi regime has plotted to develop anthrax, and nerve gas, and nuclear weapons for over a decade. This is a regime that has already used poison gas to murder thousands of its own citizens -- leaving the bodies of mothers huddled over their dead children. This is a regime that agreed to international inspections -- then kicked out the inspectors. This is a regime that has something to hide from the civilized world.

States like these, and their terrorist allies, constitute an axis of evil, arming to threaten the peace of the world. ..."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/01/20020129-11.html
 
We'll see. If we've all been tools of the Iranians for the last 12 years, we sure will feel silly.

On the other hand, the fact that Iran can find silver linings in the removal of Saddam is pretty weak evidence. I guess if you believe we went to war purely because of Chalabi, this could sort of make sense, but. . . it's a stretch.
 
Hmmn, manipulating an enemy 10+ times more powerful than you into moving in next door, displacing an enemy that you've already fought to a standoff is Iran's great coup?

Wow, if we don't watch out, they'll manipulate us into invading and conquering Iran.
 
If it turns out we were manipulated we have the perfect answer. Release Saddam from captivity and put him in charge of all forces in Iraq. Bet the Iranians would get a chuckle out of that. I'm not about to swallow all this yet but with the damage Frank Church and company did to intellegence gathering anything is possible.
 
I get a kick out of people who accuse me of being stupid and brainwashed because of my "alignment" with GW. So be it. But what does it make you when you are aligned with the wackjob-liberal "get Bush" croud? Sad, but true that you are either for what Bush has been doing, or against it. I believe that more than any other politician in range of the Whitehouse, Bush is the best man for the War On Terror. It sure as hell ain't Kerry or ANY other democrap. He isn't perfect, but he's taking the war OVER THERE. So THAT is the real reason above ALL others that I support this war. Yeah, we may be creating more warriors for the other side. But Wet Willy sure didn't do us ANY favors by sticking his cigar... I mean his head in the sand and hoping it would all go away (at least until he was out of office). I find it amazing that for so many people, Bush is a liar. It's doubtful to me that you'd find more lies and deception in the history of the Whitehouse than were perpetrated by the Klinton administration. At least with Bush I can feel like he's more interested in what's going-on in the world than what bra size the newest intern sports... :barf:
 
At least with Bush I can feel like he's more interested in what's going-on in the world than...

That's almost funny. He boasts that he doesn't read. He's arguably the most ignorant man ever to occupy the White House. He knows nothing but what his handlers tell him (at least as long as he remembers it).

Personally, I don't gave a damn who Klinton boinked, or when.

You believe that Bush is "staying the course"?

What course?

db
 
He's arguably the most ignorant man ever to occupy the White House. He knows nothing but what his handlers tell him (at least as long as he remembers it).
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People used to say this about Reagan too. Now he is revered as one of the greatest presidents in a century.

Visionary leaders are seldom understood by their contemporaries, but history remembers them well.
 
Look Dave... who's more ignorant... the man who claims (and seems) to be like the "average man", or the former Rhodes schollar who is POTUS and comprimises the security of the greatest, most-free nation by involving himself sexually in the Whitehouse with a near teenage intern, selling classified information to large communist nations that could use that information against us in a conflict (or sell it to other nations that could), yadda yadda yadda blah blah blah? If Monica had been a spy, she could've gotten anything she wanted out of Klinton. Keep ridin' your high horse Dave, the fact remains that millions of Americans realize that though Bush ain't perfect or doesn't speak like George Will, he's at least more than an overaged frat boy.

Dave... please read this carefully... DESPITE VAST AMOUNTS OF PRESSURE TO DO OTHERWISE, BUSH IS STAYING THE COURSE IN STAYING IN IRAQ. We are there. We have two choices... pull-out and prove for the millionth time to the islamic terrorists around the globe that AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE THE GUTS TO WIN THE WAR ON TERROR. Or he/we can stay and try to fight the good fight. If you think that we should pull-out, then you think just like John Kerry. That kind of thinking will only bring us more 9/11's HERE on US soil. Bush's action might also do just that, but just like my penchant for arming myself to protect and defend my family, I believe that we should give terrorists hell on every shore we can.
 
Chalabi is an agent of the British. And they weren't "stupid" - they knew quite well from bitter experience going back to 1919.
 
"He boasts that he doesn't read. He's arguably the most ignorant man ever to occupy the White House."

He doesn't read the DAILY NEWSPAPERS - 90%+ of which are slanted.

Do you think that maybe he gets some pretty good perspective from the reams of intelligence reports that hit his desk? And that the reports produced by our vast intelligence resources might be just a little bit more accurate than U.S.A. Today?
 
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