Officer Shoots Inmate

G

garryc

New member
Two days ago, at OSU medical center in Columbus Ohio, a Corrections Officer shot an inmate during an escape attempt. From the reports I've heard, the officer was re-applying restraints after an MRI when the inmate produced a sharpened toothbrush from..........a body cavity......... the back closet.....(You know) and stabbed the officer in the neck. The officer stepped back, drew his 38 and shot the inmate in the head. The 38 failed to penetrate the forehead and slid around. The inmate fled outside and the officer pursued. Grappling for the weapon the officer held it by the cylinder as the inmate attempted to gain control. Three other officers arrived and subdued the inmate. The officer was treated and released and the inmate underwent surgery.
I don't know what angle the round struck on but I consider this partly a failure of the 38. Like the 9mm I consider it fine as a ccw gun, given consideration of concealment, but if you are open carrying pack some more muscle. I can't really fault the officer for not firing outside because I don't know how many pedestrians may have been walking around.
I think that officers performing transports should be armed in a manner consistent with police. 40s+w or larger semi-auto, pepper gas and an asp. I also think my department should issue a holster that has more than just a thumb snap, like at least two retention factors. It would seem to me that these transport officers should be issued pistols that only they shoot, and care, for instead of one taken from an armory at random. But the liberal social workers who run my department don't seem to understand such concerns. It's," I found my collage diploma hanging on the wall but I can't find a clue."

Just my thoughts
 
Son-in-law's father told me of shooting a fellow in the forehead with a .357, full power, factory FMJ load. Bullet followed the skull around to the back of his head and exited, without cracking or penetrating the skull.

Now, tell me again what size bullet is guaranteed to penetrate the skull?

Pops
 
There is no round that I can think of that is going to penitrate the skull 100% of the time. The point is what has better odds. The point of my comments was not just to bash the 38, but was a bash on our firearms training and equipment. What police agency uses a 38 special as a main line gun? None I can think of. Our transport officers face risks that require better training and equipment. In transports you could be going to an outside hospital, a funeral trip in the center of the "hood". You could face an assisted escape when you are facing armed assailants. Mass escape or you could be facing someone trying to kill the inmate. You could be assaulted simply because you are wearing the uniform.
Do you want to hear something that really sounds dumb but comes from higher up? When our third shift officers have to random urine test they go to East Cleveland, (Now Thats a Crime Ridden Area) Driving a state vehicle, in uniform and UNARMED!!! Thats how in touch our administration is with reality
 
:barf:
A properly loaded factory ammo be it a 9mm, 38spl., 380, would definitely penetrate a skull. While an improperly loaded ammo, reload or factory which is underloaded might just graze your forehead.

Now would someone be kind enough to try to shoot their own head with a 22? :D
 
Shooting an Inmate

Last month, one of my coworkers shot an escaping inmate in the back of the head, from about 20 feet, as the subject was running. The round (.38 jhp) entered the back of the skull, and exited just below the eye socket.
In that instance, it worked beautifully, but as I am sure the officer was aiming for center mass, as per training, it was pure luck the the shot made contact at all ( head = small target at 20 feet and running).
I think the luck factor is more decisive than choice of caliber.

My 2 cents worth.
 
As you have read I said "From what I've heard" rumor mills being what they are, what I heard was inaccurate. Turns out he grazed the "goats" neck.
Now the question is, when the "goat" brings his civil suit will the AG's office defend him. I've been told that the AG won't defend people in the ODR+C unless they are very high up. Now the C/O would likely win the suit, but how much will it cost him to defend it. He could counter sue, but for what, the "goats" 20 bucks a month.
If the "goat" is indigent, and he likely is, it costs him nothing to file the suit. He has his inmate "lawyers" to do the work for him and frankly they often do a fairly good job.
The general thought among the officers is that if the suit is brought and the AG does not defend him, it will be a cold day in hell before another officer pulls a trigger on an escaping inmate. While you can be severely disciplined for not firing on him, given the aspects of the case, you cannot be disciplined for missing. As I've said in these forums, we do not train under stress, nor do we fire on moving targets. If the state does not back the officer up on all legal levels then pluck 'um.
 
A properly loaded factory ammo be it a 9mm, 38spl., 380, would definitely penetrate a skull. While an improperly loaded ammo, reload or factory which is underloaded might just graze your forehead.

Now would someone be kind enough to try to shoot their own head with a 22?:D
Click to expand...

I'm not giving myself the headache that some genius gave himself one night - "Oh, my girlfriend doesn't love me anymore, so I'm going to shoot myself in the forehead with my .22LR rifle..."

Darwin missed one.

Bad angle or just a hardheaded idiot - deflected off the forehead, ran around under the scalp to the base of the neck, bleeding like a stuck pig and had one heckva headache. You could see the powder burns and stippling around the entrance wound - wasn't from a distance by any means.

"Here's your sign..."

It's stuff like the above that makes me miss my old EMS days - watching Darwin Award idiots try for the gold medal. <sniff> :D
 
your ag office should be requierd to defend him if the shooting was justified. all of us know an escape attempt is a death warrent.not to mention the adw for the shank. this said you should tell your freind to get a fop lawyer[join if he isnt] or depending on the union a lawer from there.
 
liability

If you follow your government agencies policies in the shoot, you do not need to worry, AG will be on your side, at least from the cases I have seen.
When (not if) you are sued, you have vicarious libility, meaning that they can not go after you as an individual (assuming the shoot was within the scope af your duties), and so they will attack the legislature that made the laws that justified your shooting.
I have seen it a few times.
 
escape/death warrent

"your ag office should be requierd to defend him if the shooting was justified. all of us know an escape attempt is a death warrent."

In our state, we are not allowed to use leathal force on an escaping inmate, unless during the course of his escape, it is known by you that he has used leathal force in the process of his/her escape attempt. That would have been met in the above incident with the shank to the neck. By no means are we allowed to shoot a fleeing inmate without that criteria having been met. Good or bad, that is what we have to abide by so that we are not wearing a number.

On the positive side, our dept. issues sig 229 .40s&w DAO. No complaints here, and while it could always be better, we do have a fairly good weapons training unit.
 
A properly loaded factory ammo be it a 9mm, 38spl., 380, would definitely penetrate a skull. While an improperly loaded ammo, reload or factory which is underloaded might just graze your forehead.
Click to expand...

Full power factor loads can and have failed to penetrate the skull. There is no "definite" where firearms are concerned except that Murphy definitely will show up.
 
I have recent experience where a friend of mine was shot by her husband with a 380 auto . Of the 4 shots , 3 were through and through including one through the skull.
Isn't it true that of assasins that most often the weapon of choice is a .22 in the back of the head???? Thought i have read that some time ago...
 
doesn't sound right...

The officer I mentioned earlier has been cleared through the PD and IA. He was within the law and within department policy.:)
 
I've read of .58 caliber lead minie balls doing the same as the correctional officer's bullet. Just goes to show that bullets don't necessarily work. What we need are Captain Kirk's phasers which work 100% and never miss their intended target. :p
 
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