Odd results using Longshot and 200gr XTP

Metal god

New member
I posted this in another thread but got no responses so I hope It's OK to start my own thread on this issue .

Well I just got back from the range where I tested some 200gr XTP 45 bullets using longshot . I'm confused with the results though and maybe you all have an idea what was happening .

Lets start with what the Hornady book list as min to max laods and what they used to test

OVERVIEW PAGE IN BOOK

Firearm = Springfield 1911 5"
Cases = Hornady
Primer = Win LP
COAL = 1.275
Bullet diameter = .451

Load data
200gr XTP
OAL 1.210
min 6.6gr @ 800fps
Max 8.6gr @ 1000fps

OK now my loads
Firearm = Springfield 1911
Cases = Winchester
Primer = Win LP
Bullet diameter = .451
200gr XTP
COAL 1.240 suggested OAL in book 1.210

Loads and Avg velocities
6.5gr @ 750fps
7.0gr @ 834fps
7.3gr @ 864fps
7.6gr @ 875fps

And here is where it gets odd and I'm not sure how much this has to do with My chrono or not . It started acting up after this .
7.9gr @ Unknown but 4 of 5 shots were 972fps / 952 / 944 / 1159
8.1gr @ unknown but 5 shots were 1165fps / 1157 / 273 / 1161 / 268

So now I'm sitting there looking at those numbers seeing that there is clearly something wrong but not sure what . 8.1gr in the book should be around 950fps but I'm getting 200fps more velocity . I re-look at the brass and I don't see any issue on the head but do notice that from the mouth to about 3/4 of the way down on one side is black-ish but for the most part they all kinda look like this . Now I'm wondering was it the chrono or the loads . Do I shoot the next increment or not .

I did and this is what I got , 8.2gr @ 1149fps / 1157 / 1157 / 1161 / 1156 with a ES of 12 and SD of 4 . OK I'm clearly over pressure/max . I should not even be at 1000fps with that load . Hodgdon website only has 1 load for Longshot and a 200gr bullet . It is a JHP but it maxes out at 7.8gr @ about 1000fps . Is Hornady that far off on there data for those two combined components ?

I obviously stop there and start looking at my notes . There are two things that are different from Hornady to my loads . The cases and what I believe is the COAL . The cases I feel should be less of a factor but you all may know better . There COAL on the first page ( overview ) is 1.275 ( I'm assuming that's a MAX number and NOT what they loaded all test rounds to ) and the bullet data it self says 1.210 so I'm not sure what there test loads were seated at , Mine were 1.240 . Where do you think they seated the 200gr XTP ? I doubt it was 1.210 or 1.275 and I feel that may be the most important question to be answered in order to understand why my results are so different then the book . If they loaded at 1.210 then mine should have less pressure but if they were at 1.275 , my 1.240 would have much more pressure .

It just seemed odd that the velocity was moving as expected then just exploded to way over where it should have been . I should add that this was load development so I weighed each charge and confirmed the scale with check weights before each different charge weight .

Is Longshot one of those spiky powders when you get at the higher end of the charges it starts having unpredictable pressure spikes ?

Any and all thoughts welcome on what's going on here .

Thanks Metal

Since my OP in the other thread I looked closer at the Brass that shot those higher velocities . I see extractor marks and another mark that is in the same place on all cases in relation to the extractor mark .

RED = extractor mark


PURPLE = other mark noted above

GREEN = black soot on cases


IgCXpQ.jpg


You start to see those extractor marks at about 7.9gr . At 7.9gr they are very light marks and get more pronounced as the charge goes up . Now in a center fire cartridge I'd say I need to back off when seeing that . Does the same hold true in pistol loads ? I ask because when I'm doing case prep on once fired factory loaded cases . I often see extractor marks on those cases . Can getting extractor marks be more tolerated in pistol loads ???
 
My chronograph gives similarly high readings when the battery is low. Were those high readings towards the end of your session?

Chronographs really suck battery juice!
 
I installed a new battery at the start of the day . I was about 3hrs in to it's use When I started testing the 45 . I get about 20hrs per battery .

Recoil was stout but nothing real different from the rest . I mean maybe a tad more but nothing that stood out . There was a cover over the firing line and I believe the brass was bouncing off of it so I could not tell how far it was being thrown .
 
20 hours is a lot! I only get 2-3 hours out of a battery with mine. Your 7.9gr loads getting 972fps / 952 / 944 / 1159 is what makes me suspect a battery issue, a sudden jump like that is exactly what mine does when the battery gets wonky. It's hard to explain a jump like that unless you accidentally put significantly more powder into that shell.

I'd chrono that load again with a fresh battery and see what it does.
 
Could just be a really hot lot of powder.

Cleaning the eyes on the chrono from time to time never hurts.

How far away from muzzle is the chrono. I know I have to move a certain distance away otherwise I get really weird readings from the gas. I was getting 1800 from a 180gr 10mm that want loaded to nuclear levels. Took 3 steps back and everything started showing in a more realistic speed window.

Fresh batteries are good.
 
If you didn't use the chronograph all you would have would be the sound and feel to tell you some thing is wrong. Of course before you look at the cases.

So as dale asked. Did you notice I believe you should be easily noticing a clear change in sound and kick.

I don't have a chronograph but is there a maintance process that needs to be done? I understand that the technology has come a long way recently.
 
CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

I have shot 14 gr LONGSHOT with 230 gr FMJ in a 1903 Turkish Mauser I converted to 45acp, and had no pressure sign on the brass.
 
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