Observations From Switzerland

M

Mike H

New member
If this rambles along a little please forgive me.

The wife gave me permission to go and spend the weekend with my best friend and his family who have recently moved to Basle in Switzerland. As I get 6 weeks vacation to her miserly 4 and a bit weeks, I had the days to spare so I jumped at the chance. One of my alternate reasons was of course to get into the Swiss shooting scene whilst I was there. Here's what I learned/observed.

Almost all the men have had firearms training as a result of the compulsary military service scheme. Each man must do 1 year at age 18 or 21 if college gets in the way, and 1 week per year thereafter until age 45. Shooting incidents do still happen but they are rare, there were 2 the week before I came, they both concerned men with pistols who got drunk and started shooting them off in public places, one in a crowded restaurant.

There are shooting ranges everywhere, all the ones I saw were for rifles only and had the Alps for a backstop, very picturesque.

I sat by 2 very young Swiss guys on the train journey to Geneva who had their Sig 500's laying on their laps, I really wanted to handle one but my German is patchy at best and it would probably have got me shot. Apparently when the conscripts go home for the weekend, they take their rifles with them "just in case" and carry them quite openly in public when travelling, noone showed any interest whatsoever except me. For the record they look like VERY nice weapons.

I saw no evidence of rental ranges and I don't believe concealed carry is permitted.

In short, its all right if you like ball ammo and Sigs, but nothing beats the US for shooting, I have been well and truly spoiled. It would however be true to say that the Swiss are very comfortable with the concept of firearms ownership, but much of that stems from official approval, I think that is the key, you just can't beat having a pro-gun government.

Mike H
 
That Switzerland's male population was armed, tunnels and bridges mined, and the Swiss ready to scorch the earth in event of an invasion was a large deterrent to Hitler and his generals. Besides, why ruin a good escape route?
 
Originally posted by Mike H:
Each man must do 1 year at age 18 or 21 if college gets in the way, and 1 week per year thereafter until age 45. Shooting incidents do still happen but they are rare,

A country that the US should take a hard look at when dealing with buisness and politics, domestic and foreign. If only we could be so smart. How was the chocolate, cheese and wine? Buy any watches?
Click to expand...
 
The Sigs had the new clear plastic mags attached and they were empty as the spring followers could clearly be seen at full extension.

Brought Swiss chocolate home for the wife, ate Emmental cheese for lunch and stayed in the same village where the Oris watch making factory was located.

Mike H
 
Waive the red flag and have bull run you over. :)

Actually, the Swiss military system is a bit different from what you
described.

1. Between 18 and 24, you spend 4.5 months in service.
2. After that, every two years, you have a repetition course.
3. You're *usually* done at 42.

This only applies to soldiers. If you're second lieutenant, like me,
it's a bit different.

Add 18 weeks for corporal training and graduating. Then, you're off to
officer school, which is another 18 weeks. Plus 18 weeks for
graduation. You have 4 weeks per repetition course, and you have to do
one more than soldiers, seargents and corporals - UNLESS you're in the
airforce. Airforce guys who go through all tests and exams spend 2.5
years until they can begin even to think about repetition courses.
And, of course, if you're professional soldier or instructor, you wear
the 'Vierfrucht'-Pyjama (difficult to translate 'Vierfrucht' - it's
actually the same adjective as in 'Vierfruchtkonfituere', which is
marmelade with four fruits; but in the case of the camo suit, it's to
edescribe that there are four colors on it) day in, day out 'till
you're 55.

And the rifle you saw is a SIG 550. The 510 is the old one.

Concealed carry is permitted, if you get a permit. Where I live, it is
rather easy to obtain if you are out in the night a lot, or you have
had run-ins with criminals. Or if one of your relatives is a LEO.
After the Operation 'Sippe' against a whole brigade of Albanian drug
dealers, all the relatives of LEOs and investigators got permits.
Of course, if you live in some cantons like Geneva, Basle-Stadt
(Basle-Land is more liberal), or Jura, you're basically not carrying
legally unless your permit came from another canton.

There are rental ranges around. If you happen to be around in
Switzerland, remember to email me before so you can get my cell phone
number. I'll take you to a range.
 
I was in Davos, Switzerland in 1996 on business and during my visit stopped into a small gunshop. Most noteworthy was a rack full of spectacular single-shot rifles in 10.3x60R. There were a few handguns, Walthers and SIGS as I recall and one Browning over/under shotgun.

I peeked into a very well equipped gunsmith/repair shop that was in back of the shop. On the racks were SIG assault rifles ostensibly in for repair and a number of single shot rifles in various stages of construction.

Prices were high but so was everything else in Switzerland. The single-shot rifles were high end articles but a relative bargain compared to English rifles.
 
Mussi,

Thanks for correcting my half truths, the concealed carry laws were a real surprise.

If you're serious about a shooting trip, I may just take you up on the offer. Flights to Geneva are very cheap and I could easily be tempted, especially if you have one of those beautiful Sig 550's.....

Regards,

Mike H
 
Only one SIG 550? :)

BTW: Before we had a federal gun law, in 12 cantons, we had
Vermont-style carry. I carried most of the time unless I was planning
to get drunk.

In Geneva, carrying a gun was almost impossible, but it happened that
permits were issued to guys that were already dead.

Here in Berne, they're much more liberal.
 
Switzerland is a great country, and I have enjoyed my many stays there. In small towns I like to stop at a range and talk to people practicing, usually on a Saturday morning.

But let me say that many Americans have the wrong idea about Switzerland because of the liberal gun laws and attitudes.

There is intense social pressure to conform and to "go along" in Switzerland, which is one reason why there is so little crime. Families are very strong, and so are community values in rural areas.

That sounds great, but for Americans used to "doing their own thing" it would be stifling. If you stick out in any way, such as hanging out laundry the wrong day, or being loud, or questioning authority, you will find out what social pressure means.

Liberty is not the same thing as anarchy.
 
Anarchy? So, anarchy is hanging out your laundry on the wrong day, being 'loud,' and questioning authority? Gee, if that is anarchy, what do you call what is going on in Palistine?

Perhaps it is correct to point out that just because the government in Switzerland allows its subjects to have guns, doesn't mean that they are a nation of Individualists as are Americans. The collective is the Sovereign, where in the US the People, individual people, still are--for the most part.
 
Living in the outer quarters of Berne is somewhat different. The
social cohesion is weaker, at least a little bit. We don't have to
comply at all cost here. Actually, the freedom here is DIFFERENT.

We can vote on our laws, constitutions, communal regulations, taxes
and lots more. We traded that for a stronger social cohesion than in
the United States. The antis can't push their political agenda so
easily as in the US since we can and do vote on a lot of things,
including gun laws. Alone the threat of a referendum influeces our
national and state parliaments so much they usually remove everything
that might threaten it's passing.

Just look at military service - it is a mirror of society. In the US,
you address your superior with 'Sir'. Here, it's 'Lieutenant, private
xzy'. Here, the really good performers, those who are fittest, help
the weakest so the infantry platoon gets through with top scores, but
the weakest are expected to perform at their best.

And, yes, I question authority. Only dead fish swim with the stream.
That's why I'm gun owner, too.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top