Observations at a match.

[longspurr]

At a IDPA Back Up Gun match I observed a couple things worth commenting on.
Ruger LCP. An experienced shooter drew, fired and had a jam. He quickly cleared it and resumed firing.
I commented on this to a fellow shooter and found out that he offers a course training new shooters. They can get their CCW and be familiar with their guns. He said he often sees these small auto’s jam.

This is due to “limp wristing”. He tells the student that the very small light weight autos are for experienced shooters only. The very short grip (2 fingers?) and high recoil to weight make holding the gun for proper cycling problematic.

38 snubbies. Guys that normally shoot SA’s in IDPA were bringing out their snubbies for this match. They were getting the required # of hits on target – but the hits were all over. I know the guns are capable of much better. But during the fast action of a match (and probably not much practice with that gun) they were spraying the targets.

BTW my Makarov ran perfectly and good hits were easy at 2 to 7 yards

 

[MrBorland]

This is one of the big benefits to shooting IDPA, or any competition for that matter - it tests you and your gear.

One can feel confident in their gear as they practice in a nice controlled range environment, but be surprised when they have technical problems when time matters, or when they have to draw from concealment quickly and make CoM hits with a reload. Competition is a good proving ground for what works and what doesn't.

 

[RickB]

You often hear small guns being recommended to women because they have small hands, but for that reason, women should be shooting something that they can get all of both hands around.
We did a BUG "championship" a couple of years ago - 14, 5-round stages - and while there were plenty of snubbies and .380s, the top three spots were all shot with compact versions of full-sized .45 and 9mm autos.

 

[fastbolt]

Unsurprising.

The diminutive "pocket pistols" do require some attention in the way of proper grip technique & support.

Their small size also makes it a bit harder for folks with larger hands to keep their fingers out of the way, or even comfortably handle and manipulate the smallest of them.

I know an instructor who experienced repeated stoppages with his brand new LCP. It wasn't until I had the time to walk over and watch him shooting the gun that I noticed his "thumbs forward" grip technique was putting both of this thumbs up and alongside the itty bitty slide, during recoil (when he couldn't feel it happening), and this contact was apparently slowing critical slide velocity. Once I got his thumbs moved away from the slide, the "problem" went away.

I've also seen it happen where a shooter with a "fleshy" web of the hand experienced slide-bite, and to a degree where it not only cut their hand, but slowed the slide's velocity and total run/travel to the point that it induced stoppages.

Then, there was this one gentleman who had an interesting crossed-thumbs grip that precisely allowed his support hand thumb to shift inward and depress the mag catch, during recoil, when the gun snapped upward and his thumb shifted in response, and his mag repeatedly dropped out of the gun. I mentioned my observation of his grip possibly resulting in his 'mag-drop' problem, and he reluctantly shifted his support hand. The "problem" stopped ... and he castigated himself rather soundly, explaining that he'd simply thought his PPK/s had a "problem" for all the years he'd been using it. Another simple, but unidentified, grip-related issue with a smaller pistol.

Small 5-shot snubs, especially the lighter weight models? Well, the very attributes that make them so desirable and handy for lawful concealed carry can also make them harder for most folks to shoot. Even folks who are experienced shooters of larger revolvers can experience problems when going to the much smaller & lighter snubs.

Not surprising some folks have a hard time shooting them, especially when asked to do so in more demanding situations and conditions.

I miss the days when cops learned their basic handgun foundation skills using DA revolvers, though.

FWIW, when I picked up my first 642-1 (still a rather new model at that time, and my first Airweight), it had been a few years since I'd been carrying either a service revolver, or even my well-used M36 3" HB or M649 Bodyguard (.38 version) as off-duty weapons. After the revolver armorer of that time inspected the snub (and did some de-burring), I invested some range time reawakening my DA revolver skills.

I recall going through a couple cases of ammo before I felt as comfortable with the little Airweight as I'd been with my former service revolvers and snubs.

During that time I also discovered that the reduced power rebound slide spring the armorer installed for me (heaviest of a 3-pack of lighter weight springs) was enough lighter than factory that I started to experience my trigger finger out-running the trigger's recovery during rapid shot strings. Not good. The factory spring went back in the gun.

 

[kraigwy]

You often hear small guns being recommended to women because they have small hands, but for that reason, women should be shooting something that they can get all of both hands around.

Women and everyone else should learn to shoot and control their handgun with one hand.

It's a rare occasion except on the range we have both hands free. We need to learn to shoot right and left handed, one handed.

If limp wresting is a problem then lock your wrest. It simple, to demonstrate have your shooter point the gun at the target. Take one finger and place it on the top of their forearm. Then one finger from your other hand placed under the pistol grip. Push up with the finger on the grip while holding the arm down.

If the wrest breads, its called limp wresting, all you have to do is cock or lock your wrest down. Have them do that and you'll see when you push up on the wrest, you and pushing the whole arm.

Correct the problem, don't blame the equipment.

Gary Anderson in the CMP Master Instructor Course says "there is no hopeless shooters", this is true, but I add, there is hopeless or problem instructors.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I have no problem with my LCP. I guess that is good.
I really do not understand the "limp wrist" issue. Does that mean if the gun is not well secured it will not cycle properly?

 

[James K]

I have posted this elsewhere, but it bears repeating. Very small guns and very large guns are for the experts. An average person, even if he/she has done some shooting, is not likely to be able to calmly face a threat and put small bullets precisely where they must go to neutralize that threat. Nor is an inexperienced shooter likely to fire a .44 Magnum or .454 without flinching or even (yes, it has happened) dropping the gun from shock at the noise and blast.

As in many other things, moderation is best.

Jim

 

[longspurr]

Rifleman
I used the words “limp wristing” because that is what the fellow shooter said. This is misleading because the problem is not having enough resistance to recoil to allow the self loading action to take place properly. This can be a weak grip OR a weak wrist.

In guns with short grips that only allow one or 2 fingers to grip the gun, the multifunction possibilitys increase. Add in a very light gun for the amount of recoil and this becomes more of a problem.

In another forum I read about a experienced shooter having multiple jams on his LCP. When his friend shot it there was no problem. Watching the gun owner the friend saw his 2 thumbs up grip was contacting the slide. Slowing the slide a bit during recoil was causing jams.