Obselete 1911 & Modern Glock Pistols

T

The Observer

New member
What do we really mean if we say obselete or a modern gun. I posted this topic as an offshoot of the topics hereon saying that the 1911 is an obselete pistol and the glock is a modern one (perhaps it can be called pistol 2000 or star-trek gun.

If we say modern, are we looking at the design or it is more effective in killing if used to that purpose.

Is it not, that the the so called modern pistols today are just modification of mechanical aspects or improvements of the old 1911's. Or, an additional firepower/hi-caps.

For me, a modern one should be of better metal quality use and less prone to jamming or had solved the many malfunctions of pistols.

Or perhaps buyers are just fooled by the many make-ups of so called modern pistols today.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The Observer:
...a modern one should be of better metal [or other material such as polymer] quality use and less prone to jamming or had solved the many malfunctions of pistols.[/quote]

I looked up Glock in the official KilgorII dictionary and it had just that definition beside it.
 
First of all, the 1911 is not obsolete. Ask anyone who has used one in a defensive situation - they still work.

In the context of the question I think the terms have to do with engineering design and manufacturing techniques/materials. In that sense the forged/machined 1911 is "obsolete" and the polymer framed Glock is "modern".

Dave T
PCSD Ret
 
It's like saying my new Chevy Metro is "modern" when my 1986 Olds 442 will still rip it to pieces. Modern = new. I don't know that you would consider any firearm obselete. There is still a large group of people that muzzleload and still a large market for this type of firearm. It does its job efficiemtly so I wouldn't consider it obselete, although it is not the modern method.
 
I'm perfectly willing to accept that the Glock is a "modern" pistol. THey sure dont build 'em like they used too! ;)
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>...less prone to jamming or had solved the many malfunctions of pistols[/quote]

Just a lone voice here saying that Glock has built a more reliable, more corrosion resistant, more affordable pistol than anyone to date. Including a good design that is almost 100 years old, but time and technology have beaten. It is no slight on John Browning or his design. But, time keeps marching and sooner or later someone will design something better than the Glock. It just hasn't been done yet.
 
I think the smaller Glocks are much better CCW weapons than 1911's. For open carry I would prefer a 1911 though.

Whats a 1986 Olds 442? :confused:

I much prefer my '71 Impala to any modern american car, even if it only has a 350 [so George, if I put a 454 would that end it's obsolescence ;)]. Now there are some modern American 4x4's I like :D
 
Let us not fall into the pit of thinking that "new" or "different" mean "better". I think obsolete is a poor choice of terms when speaking of handguns designed and manufactured in the 20th century. IMHO, the term is only used by those whose personal opinion it is that Glocks are the be-all and end-all of handgun design.

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If you're not a little upset with the way the world is going, you're not paying attention.
 
I looked up obsolete at the Merriam-Webster online dictionary (http://www.m-w.com) and found this:

ob·so·lete
1a:no longer in use or no longer useful
b :of a kind or style no longer current

I definatly would not call a 1911 no longer useful, and considering how many manufacturers that have copied the 1911 model and with some such as HK *modernizing* it, I would not say it is no longer current. I have no problem calling a Glock a modern pistol, but calling a 1911 obsolete is harsh. Personally I don't own any 1911's while I do own a Glock. I wouldn't mind having a 1911 made by some of the more respected manufacturers such as HK or Kimber, but I don't think I would be trading in my carry G30 for a 1911 anytime soon. But that is just me :-)

45er

[This message has been edited by 45er (edited September 06, 2000).]
 
"THey sure dont build 'em like they used too!"

Thank Gaston! :D

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Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19!
 
Wrong, it was done last year, in the form of the Kimber lw compact. The pistol's job is be concealed, fast into action, and easy to get repeat hits. While the Glock is OK, the Kimber is demonstrably better in all three categories. A single stack is easier to conceal, and an SA trigger pull is easier to hit with swiftly. Notice that Glock won't let other types of pistols compete at "their" matches? How would it be perceived if IPSC had restricted their matches to only Colts? The SA autos win, regardless of range, size of targets, etc. Would you like to try DA on metallic silohuette, or BE? Even with all the time in the world, DA is still a handicap when the targets are small-distant, eh? When they are close and fast (ie, a head bobbing out from behind cover) the DA is still a handicap. The Glock trigger is just a sort of LW DA, and those who add the heavier springs return it to the status of DA, in regards to its ability to hit swiftly. Sure, Fast DA work CAN be done, if you devote your entire life to learning it and maintaining it, get arthritus from the stess on your hands, etc.
 
I think it's more along the lines that the Glock owners feel like they somehow have to 'defend' themselves for buying one... I have nothing against the Glock, except that it isnt comfortable in MY hand. What I do take exception to is the fact that the Glock owners always seem to 'defend' themself by running down the 1911.

NO (and here I mean the Glock, 1911, Sig, HK, Beretta and ALL the others) pistol is perfect. At least not yet... but why does everyone feel the need to put down other makes than the ones THEY prefer to make the pistol they DO prefer 'look good'? Are you all THAT insecure about what ANYone else thinks of your choice for self defense? If it works for you, GREAT!!! That the most important part of the equation...but just remember that YOUR 'great' may be someone else's 'mediocre' or 'poor'...PLEASE???

Sorry for the long post, folks...just tired of seeing all the squabbling...

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Mike
mnealtx@yahoo.com
 
Obselete??? Mine still works fine. Every time I pull the trigger a not so little piece of copper and lead rushes out of my barrel and makes a hole in whatever I happen to have been pointing at. Aside from the polymer in the frame what is really that new in the Glock. Striker fired guns have been around for a long time. As far as I am concerned no handgun that still shoots is obselete. I'd much rather have someone shoot at me with a modern gun and miss than someone shoot at me with an oselete gun and hit.
 
The saying in IT is, "If it still does what you need it to do, it isn't obsolete." We say this to people who constantly demand the newest, fastest, shiniest toy to hit the market.

The 1911 still does what I need it to do, therefore it isn't obsolete.
 
New?? Modern? Hell my 1917 Army still shoots like a dream.. of course its not my everyday gun.. but still..

what is a sword to the hand that wields it?

ANY experienced shooter and gunhandler will outshoot ANY novice no matter what they are armed with. Give the average armchair commando aan accurized uberglock assault cannon and some crusty old fart with a krag jorgenson (who shoots it every month) will outshoot him anyday.

Its NOT about the hardware.. its about what is between your ears that matters.

Ive seen PLENTY of "perfect" glocks jam in compettion.. and I've seen plenty of 1911's jam too. You can tell who has practiced clearing a jam and who hasn't.

Is a .32 colt pocket pistol still relevant?? If its pointed at YOU I'd say yep.


BTW "modern" in an art/design connotation refers to the 1915-1935 period of history. The proper term for a glock's design would be "postmodern" but hey that's just semantics.

;)

Dr.Rob


[This message has been edited by Dr.Rob (edited September 07, 2000).]
 
Quote
First of all, the 1911 is not obsolete. Ask anyone who has used one in a defensive situation - they still work.
End

You could say the same thing about a cap and ball revolver if employed properly it would still work but it is also obsolete. Now I am not saying the 1911 is obsolete but I think its getting there. and the Da revolver is already there.
PAT

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I intend to go into harms way.
 
Better not say that 'revolver is obsolete' stuff to Jerry Miculek, Pat.
He can put six (or eight) into a target before you or I would even have the sights lined up on the target!
 
If it still fills its intended mission then it is not obsolete. Even if something comes along that fulfills the mission better that only makes it obsolecent. And to say that the Glock fulfills the mission better than a 1911 is highly arguable as we have seen so many times.

I heard somebody call an SKS obsolete the other day. Obsolete? How? It does the same thing now as it did 50 years ago. Is it an AR? No. But it still fulfills its mission.
 
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