I'm somewhat new to reloading and know QAL has been beat to death, but I'm a little confused. I purchased a Hornady OAL gauge and used it on my Remington VTR-15 to check the OAL to get to the recommended length to the rifling lands. To make it to the lands the bullet is barely in the brass. I know manufactures play it safe, but it seems alittle extreme. Am I missing something here? Everything I read suggests to get as close to the lands for accuracy as possible with caution to pressure. The gun is real accurate, but I always strive for better. I just started with the VTR and haven't checked my other AR's. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
OAL using gauge
- Thread starter hdtramp
- Start date
ShootistPRS
New member
Some guns, some powders in some cartridges need higher pressures to get good consistent ignition. Tests have shown that the closer a bullet is to the rifling the more chamber pressure goes up.
In a hunting rifle we are reminded that it is not a good idea to get the bullet into the lands - you may have to pull the cartridge out and it could separate the bullet from the case and leave a mess of powder in the gun and a bullet in the bore.
My advice is: if you are going to seat your bullet close to the lands make sure your chamber will safely allow it and work the load up at that overall length. I personally don't consider the practice necessary for accuracy. I typically use the listed overall length listed with the load data and tune the load with the powder charge to get accuracy. In fact I have an old 03A3 that won't allow a 180 grain bullet to touch the lands while it is in the case. Granted it is an old, worn, military gun but it still shoots sub MOA groups. Use the data in the listed load and go from there. As always start low, work your loads up toward the listed maximum while watching for abnormal signs of excessive pressure. (never exceed maximum loads unless you are willing to accept the responsibility for doing so.) if you see signs of excessive pressure before you get to maximum listed loads, STOP! Find out what is going on and recognize that your gun may not be as tolerant as the gun tested in that load.
In a hunting rifle we are reminded that it is not a good idea to get the bullet into the lands - you may have to pull the cartridge out and it could separate the bullet from the case and leave a mess of powder in the gun and a bullet in the bore.
My advice is: if you are going to seat your bullet close to the lands make sure your chamber will safely allow it and work the load up at that overall length. I personally don't consider the practice necessary for accuracy. I typically use the listed overall length listed with the load data and tune the load with the powder charge to get accuracy. In fact I have an old 03A3 that won't allow a 180 grain bullet to touch the lands while it is in the case. Granted it is an old, worn, military gun but it still shoots sub MOA groups. Use the data in the listed load and go from there. As always start low, work your loads up toward the listed maximum while watching for abnormal signs of excessive pressure. (never exceed maximum loads unless you are willing to accept the responsibility for doing so.) if you see signs of excessive pressure before you get to maximum listed loads, STOP! Find out what is going on and recognize that your gun may not be as tolerant as the gun tested in that load.
hdtramp, I can not speak for other reloaders but for me I start from the other direction, I must know the length of the chamber from the rifling to the bolt face before I start; anything else is busy work. And then there is the one more time thing, the Hornady tool is a comparator; I had nothing to do with it but reloaders went through a phase where ever tool was identified as a head space gage and everything has head space.
I do not have a Hornady gage, I use common sense, I transfer the dimensions of the chamber to the seating die then zero. After that I seat the bullet off of the lands.
After that I go for bullet hold, I want all the bullet hold I can get and I insist on the running start.
F. Guffey
I do not have a Hornady gage, I use common sense, I transfer the dimensions of the chamber to the seating die then zero. After that I seat the bullet off of the lands.
After that I go for bullet hold, I want all the bullet hold I can get and I insist on the running start.
F. Guffey
I doubt you are missing anything. One of my better performing .308 Winchester bolt guns is an older Remington 700 BDL VSSF with some customization. This past summer, shooting Sierra 168 Grain Match Kings over AA 2495 the rifle delivered several 0.4" groups (5 shot). This rifle has a long leade, a very deep throat. If I try to load close to my lands the bullet will have very little case to seat in.
Rifle Cartridge Overall Length is a pretty good read on the subject but I also feel the subject is over rated. I have watched the bench rest guys partially start a bullet seating and use the chamber and bolt to finish seating. Yes, bullet on the lands. Possibly in match or high quality target rifles but rather than start working off the lands, if I were you, I would try as Mr. Guffy suggest. Start with a C.O.A.L. out of the load data manual and work out towards the lands. If good things start to happen then pursue it but otherwise just work with powder charge and type.
Ron
brasscollector
New member
Your AR chamber may be cut to 5.56 or 223 wylde dimensions. You will not be able to seat 50-55gr bullets anywhere near the lands in a 5.56/wylde chamber. You might get longer VLDs to have enough bullet in the neck and get close to the rifling but that brings up another point, internal mag length/dimension. Ideally you are going to want to make ammo that fits/feeds from the magazine
. Single feeding an AR is slower than a bolt action and drastically reduces the usefulness (a real PITA IMO).
. Single feeding an AR is slower than a bolt action and drastically reduces the usefulness (a real PITA IMO).