I heard to day that Seagle's, the only gun store in Oakland, is closing. This is allegedly due to a city regulation pushed by City Councilman Chin, who is the same guy that pushed the minimum handgun size. Seagle's has been a privately owned business for 60 years. If anyone has any more psecifics please post them.
Oakland, CA--Seagle's is Closing!
- Thread starter Mendocino
- Start date
Ya. Seagles also does brisk business in clothing, fishing tackle, all kinds of stuff. No more than 1/8th of the total retail space is guns, probably less depending on how big that upstairs fishing area is. Not unusual as CA gun shops go; Traders in San Leandro is probably less than 1/6th physical space for guns and gun stuff total and they're the biggest gun dealer in CA I think.
Oakland put a flat 3% tax on everything they sell, because they're a gun dealer. Not a tax on just the guns'n'ammo, mind you, on *everything*. It's probably illegal per CA's gun/ammo state law preemption but they don't have the bucks to fight.
Now Oakland is forcing them to room off the gun area from any possible kid's sight or access, as if it was porn of some sort. That means re-arranging everything, the way Seagle's is layed out. And sales of smaller-sized guns are being banned by the city, something else illegal as hell. The small Glocks, J-Frames and everything smaller is affected.
Want the topper?
Under their last PD Chief of three years (Samuels), not one application for a permit ever crossed his desk. All applicants were illegally denied the application forms. Mayor (former Governor) Brown threw Samuels out because he was "too conservative". Under the new Chief, hey, wow, a single CCW permit has been issued - to Mayor Brown's close personal friend, roommate and Brown's former bodyguard back when he was Governor and rated a full-time bodyguard - which officially, he doesn't as mayor.
"Oh no, we're not a bunch of elitist liberals utterly lacking in credibility, integrity or respect for the law and constitution!".
Male Bovine Excrement.
Jim
Oakland put a flat 3% tax on everything they sell, because they're a gun dealer. Not a tax on just the guns'n'ammo, mind you, on *everything*. It's probably illegal per CA's gun/ammo state law preemption but they don't have the bucks to fight.
Now Oakland is forcing them to room off the gun area from any possible kid's sight or access, as if it was porn of some sort. That means re-arranging everything, the way Seagle's is layed out. And sales of smaller-sized guns are being banned by the city, something else illegal as hell. The small Glocks, J-Frames and everything smaller is affected.
Want the topper?
Under their last PD Chief of three years (Samuels), not one application for a permit ever crossed his desk. All applicants were illegally denied the application forms. Mayor (former Governor) Brown threw Samuels out because he was "too conservative". Under the new Chief, hey, wow, a single CCW permit has been issued - to Mayor Brown's close personal friend, roommate and Brown's former bodyguard back when he was Governor and rated a full-time bodyguard - which officially, he doesn't as mayor.
"Oh no, we're not a bunch of elitist liberals utterly lacking in credibility, integrity or respect for the law and constitution!".
Male Bovine Excrement.
Jim
This is really sad. Jeez, I'm totally disgusted with Kalifornicate and its blue nosed liberal politicians. I remember Seagle's while in the Navy at Alameda NAS in 58. The old store was near a lake in those days, later it moved to Telegraph Avenue...I think. There were so many hookers standing out front of it you could hardly get into the place. Don't know that place called Traders.
Must have been after I left that freaken state of male bovine extrement. I just had to steal that one.
Jim
Must have been after I left that freaken state of male bovine extrement. I just had to steal that one.
Jim
buckskinner
New member
Thanks Mendo for the getting the word out.
I went in today and bought a rifle I've always wanted, but felt like a vulture hovering over a mortally wounded animal. There were lines out the door, and at every counter space. There were alot of guns sold today in Oakland.
I asked the very busy manager what we could do to protest the tax to the city, and she said "inundate the mayor's office with phone calls". I think that she is relieved to be closing her doors.
I bought my first rifle there 20 years ago with money I saved from my paper route on the Oakland Tribune.
I feel as if the rug were just yanked out from underneath me...
------------------
Treason doth never prosper. What's the reason? For if it doth prosper, none dare call it treason." - John Barrington
I went in today and bought a rifle I've always wanted, but felt like a vulture hovering over a mortally wounded animal. There were lines out the door, and at every counter space. There were alot of guns sold today in Oakland.
I asked the very busy manager what we could do to protest the tax to the city, and she said "inundate the mayor's office with phone calls". I think that she is relieved to be closing her doors.
I bought my first rifle there 20 years ago with money I saved from my paper route on the Oakland Tribune.
I feel as if the rug were just yanked out from underneath me...
------------------
Treason doth never prosper. What's the reason? For if it doth prosper, none dare call it treason." - John Barrington
Last Gun Shop in Oakland Closing Steep tax ruined profits, owner says
Janine DeFao, Chronicle Staff Writer
Thursday, July 13, 2000 ©2000 San Francisco Chronicle
URL: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi- bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/07/13/MN89677.DTL
OAKLAND -- Mara Siegle has fired her last shot in her battle against Oakland's increasingly tough gun laws. After 57 years, she is closing the doors to her family's gun shop, the last one standing in Oakland.
A few miles south, in neighboring San Leandro, the owner of Traders fears his store, the largest gun outlet in Northern California, could meet the same fate. But Anthony Cucchiara is determined to keep fighting.
Yesterday, as Siegle rang up going-out-of-business bargains for a long line of customers under a sign decrying Oakland's ``illegal'' gun tax, an Alameda County Superior Court Judge dismissed Cucchiara's lawsuit over a similar tax in San Leandro.
But Cucchiara's lawyers said he will appeal the ruling on the tax, which, they say, was designed to drive Traders out of business -- the same claim the owner of Siegle's Guns makes.
Voters in both cities approved special taxes on gun sales and shops in June 1998. City leaders argued that those who sell guns should help pay for their costs to society, an estimated $32,000 for every gunshot wound treated.
San Leandro's tax, approved narrowly, requires a seller to pay the city 3 percent of the proceeds from the sale of concealable firearms and their ammunition.
Oakland's measure, which was approved by a wide margin, is farther reaching. Any store that sells guns or ammunition must pay the city $24 for every $1,000 made on any merchandise sold, from guns to fishing rods to books.
Prior to the tax's approval, such businesses paid $1.20 for every $1,000 in receipts.
``It's a business-destruction tax,'' Siegle said yesterday as customers, new and old, crowded her store on West MacArthur Boulevard at Telegraph Avenue for her three-week closeout sale.
The tax measures in Oakland and San Leandro were part of a campaign by officials in East Bay cities to control the sale of guns. Money from the taxes is used to fund gun- violence prevention programs.
In addition, many of the cities have approved bans on the sale of so- called junk guns. Earlier this year, Oakland became the first city in the nation to ban the sale of pocket-size handguns known as ``ultracompacts'' - - a move that targeted Siegle's Guns.
Oakland has ``strategically and selectively targeted Siegle's,'' said Siegle, who took over the North Oakland sporting goods store after her husband's death seven years ago. He had inherited it from his father, the founder.
``They wanted me gone,'' she said. ``They got their wish.''
City Councilman Henry Chang, who championed the tax, denied that was the city's intent, saying that Siegle's has been a responsible business and never the subject of complaints.
``We didn't do that to hurt her. It's to protect the young people who get hurt by gun violence,'' Chang said.
Siegle's was the only store in Oakland subject to the tax because Super K- Mart opted to stop selling ammunition rather than pay it. Chang said Siegle's could have reduced the effect of the tax by opening a second store for nonfirearm sporting goods.
But ``if you profit from guns, you need to pay part of the costs, too,'' he said.
Siegle's customers called the tax unfair and warned it could backfire.
``If a person really wants a gun, they'll use illegal means to get one,'' said Roland Horn, a San Francisco target shooter.
In Traders' lawsuit against San Leandro yesterday, Superior Court Judge James A. Richman threw out the case. Among Traders' arguments was that the city invalidly placed the tax measure on the ballot.
Attorney Jack Leavitt, who represents the gun store, said he will appeal to the Court of Appeal in San Francisco.
``With the 2 percent profit margin Traders makes on most transactions, a 3 percent tax can essentially put it out of business. . . . Our position is the city is less interested in raising revenue than in putting Traders out of business,'' he said.
San Leandro Assistant City Attorney Liane M. Randolph said the city intends to use the money toward crime prevention and anti-violence programs.
But because of the lawsuit, Traders had not paid the city the money owed - - $110,000 over two years -- until recently.
The law does affect an additional six or seven smaller gun sellers, including pawnshops, in the city, officials said.
Randolph said city officials do hope the tax will ``discourage the sale of handguns in San Leandro.''
E-mail Janine DeFao at jdefao@sfgate.com.
Janine DeFao, Chronicle Staff Writer
Thursday, July 13, 2000 ©2000 San Francisco Chronicle
URL: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi- bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/07/13/MN89677.DTL
OAKLAND -- Mara Siegle has fired her last shot in her battle against Oakland's increasingly tough gun laws. After 57 years, she is closing the doors to her family's gun shop, the last one standing in Oakland.
A few miles south, in neighboring San Leandro, the owner of Traders fears his store, the largest gun outlet in Northern California, could meet the same fate. But Anthony Cucchiara is determined to keep fighting.
Yesterday, as Siegle rang up going-out-of-business bargains for a long line of customers under a sign decrying Oakland's ``illegal'' gun tax, an Alameda County Superior Court Judge dismissed Cucchiara's lawsuit over a similar tax in San Leandro.
But Cucchiara's lawyers said he will appeal the ruling on the tax, which, they say, was designed to drive Traders out of business -- the same claim the owner of Siegle's Guns makes.
Voters in both cities approved special taxes on gun sales and shops in June 1998. City leaders argued that those who sell guns should help pay for their costs to society, an estimated $32,000 for every gunshot wound treated.
San Leandro's tax, approved narrowly, requires a seller to pay the city 3 percent of the proceeds from the sale of concealable firearms and their ammunition.
Oakland's measure, which was approved by a wide margin, is farther reaching. Any store that sells guns or ammunition must pay the city $24 for every $1,000 made on any merchandise sold, from guns to fishing rods to books.
Prior to the tax's approval, such businesses paid $1.20 for every $1,000 in receipts.
``It's a business-destruction tax,'' Siegle said yesterday as customers, new and old, crowded her store on West MacArthur Boulevard at Telegraph Avenue for her three-week closeout sale.
The tax measures in Oakland and San Leandro were part of a campaign by officials in East Bay cities to control the sale of guns. Money from the taxes is used to fund gun- violence prevention programs.
In addition, many of the cities have approved bans on the sale of so- called junk guns. Earlier this year, Oakland became the first city in the nation to ban the sale of pocket-size handguns known as ``ultracompacts'' - - a move that targeted Siegle's Guns.
Oakland has ``strategically and selectively targeted Siegle's,'' said Siegle, who took over the North Oakland sporting goods store after her husband's death seven years ago. He had inherited it from his father, the founder.
``They wanted me gone,'' she said. ``They got their wish.''
City Councilman Henry Chang, who championed the tax, denied that was the city's intent, saying that Siegle's has been a responsible business and never the subject of complaints.
``We didn't do that to hurt her. It's to protect the young people who get hurt by gun violence,'' Chang said.
Siegle's was the only store in Oakland subject to the tax because Super K- Mart opted to stop selling ammunition rather than pay it. Chang said Siegle's could have reduced the effect of the tax by opening a second store for nonfirearm sporting goods.
But ``if you profit from guns, you need to pay part of the costs, too,'' he said.
Siegle's customers called the tax unfair and warned it could backfire.
``If a person really wants a gun, they'll use illegal means to get one,'' said Roland Horn, a San Francisco target shooter.
In Traders' lawsuit against San Leandro yesterday, Superior Court Judge James A. Richman threw out the case. Among Traders' arguments was that the city invalidly placed the tax measure on the ballot.
Attorney Jack Leavitt, who represents the gun store, said he will appeal to the Court of Appeal in San Francisco.
``With the 2 percent profit margin Traders makes on most transactions, a 3 percent tax can essentially put it out of business. . . . Our position is the city is less interested in raising revenue than in putting Traders out of business,'' he said.
San Leandro Assistant City Attorney Liane M. Randolph said the city intends to use the money toward crime prevention and anti-violence programs.
But because of the lawsuit, Traders had not paid the city the money owed - - $110,000 over two years -- until recently.
The law does affect an additional six or seven smaller gun sellers, including pawnshops, in the city, officials said.
Randolph said city officials do hope the tax will ``discourage the sale of handguns in San Leandro.''
E-mail Janine DeFao at jdefao@sfgate.com.