I am an admitted shotgun newbie. I would like to purchase a one soon to get started with skeet / clays, but would also like it for turkey and small game. I know there isn't a "one gun does all" gun out there, but if I wanted to be as good as I can be with clays, is an over under the way to go? Are they more accurate or is it more of the design that makes it more appropriate for clays. I have shot a Browning A5 quite a few times and have looked at the Browning Citoris, although they are very expensive. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
O/U or semi?
- Thread starter tdgator
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semi_problomatic
New member
Semi-auto. Not even really a question if you want it to be a combo gun. Plus less recoil (easier on the body, faster follow up shots), same POI (not exactly easy to align 2 barrels, and they're on different planes anyway), holds more bullets (I like more bullets).
I own an O/U and semi automatic shotgun. I can tell you that you can use either one for what you are talking about. However I would recommend the semi automatic only because you are looking for a combo gun. The auto has the capability of switching barrels to either a deer barrel and scope or a longer barrel. You also have a 5 shot gun compared to a 2 shot gun. In general it is a more flexible gun compared to the O/U.
Don't get me wrong, I really like my O/U shotgun. I hunt grouse, pheasant and shoot skeet and sporting clays with it. You need to decide what works best for you.
Jim
Don't get me wrong, I really like my O/U shotgun. I hunt grouse, pheasant and shoot skeet and sporting clays with it. You need to decide what works best for you.
Jim
allaroundhunter
New member
Yes and no. In some clay games the shell being ejected towards another shooter is a big no-no. However, there are modifications you can make to keep that from happening.
In other clay games, semis are perfectly acceptable.
For a combo gun, you really should get a semi. A Beretta would probably be the best choice.
Everyone here seems to be on the semi-auto bandwagon, so let me weigh in for the double barrels. First, let's address some things:
One big advantage of the double is the use of screw-in chokes. That allows for instant adaptation to varying target distances and flight direction of birds.
Some say the recoil is more for a double. But I figure if you only shoot one or maybe two shots, no big deal. I have never noticed harsh recoil on mine.
What sold me on doubles is the feel of them. They are solid, balanced in the hands, and smooth loading and shooting. I cannot write anything here to better describe it. But just try one some time and you will (or you might) see what I mean.
The negative of the double of course is obviously the cost. And I agree that a good SA can be had for several hundred dollars less than the double.
Lou
As far as faster shooting, between the first and second shots, a double is as fast or faster than a SA. As far as not shooting to the same POI because they are "on different planes", the centers of the barrels being 1 inch apart at the muzzles makes no difference when the target is yards away and shot is used. As far as there being faster follow up shots, the double wins again. Given a bag full of cartridges for each shooter, the one using a double will empty the bag in less time than one using the SA. True, the double can only shoot two at a time, but in the time it takes to reload the SA, the double shooter can get several shots off. Besides, who needs more than two shots?
One big advantage of the double is the use of screw-in chokes. That allows for instant adaptation to varying target distances and flight direction of birds.
Some say the recoil is more for a double. But I figure if you only shoot one or maybe two shots, no big deal. I have never noticed harsh recoil on mine.
What sold me on doubles is the feel of them. They are solid, balanced in the hands, and smooth loading and shooting. I cannot write anything here to better describe it. But just try one some time and you will (or you might) see what I mean.
The negative of the double of course is obviously the cost. And I agree that a good SA can be had for several hundred dollars less than the double.
Lou
I would start out with a "Low Mileage" (most, are) 12ga. Auto, or even a pump, and start looking for interchangeable barrels. After a few months you will find that your interests will take you in one direction, and you will be able to decide for yourself.
Right now I have a Wingmaster with barrels from 18" to 34", some with interchangeable chokes, some with fixed chokes. Also there are 3 or 4 different "Corncobs" and as many different butt stocks. Overtime, it has become my "Loaner" to friends and family.
The 870 with a 30" barrel and a homemade (With cardboard & duct tape) trap stock was my first trap gun. Now I use a Browning Trap Spe., for 16 yards, Doubles, and Hdicap.
The 870 with a 26" was my first skeet gun. Now I use a Browning O/U with 28" barrels.
The 870 with an 18" barrel was my first "3 Gun" shotgun. Now I use a Benelli M1 Super 90.
The only hunting I do is coyote, and again the 870 was my first coyote gun. Now the Benelli with a 26" barrel is the coyote getter.
Side Issues:
If you reload, the auto will throw your shells into a pile 7' to 8' away on the ground, and you will need to pick them up. The O/U, you just pull them out of the chamber and drop them into your pocket, and move on. The O/U will shoot any load that will pattern, and the auto will shoot almost any load too.
With the auto, you put one choke in the barrel, and use it for all the shots at that station. The O/U, you will put one choke in the "Under" barrel for your first shot, and a second choke in the "Upper" for your second shot.
If anyone complains about hitting them, with your sent shells, just tell them to "Move their Fat A$$ back to where they should be standing, when its your turn to shoot!"
Right now I have a Wingmaster with barrels from 18" to 34", some with interchangeable chokes, some with fixed chokes. Also there are 3 or 4 different "Corncobs" and as many different butt stocks. Overtime, it has become my "Loaner" to friends and family.
The 870 with a 30" barrel and a homemade (With cardboard & duct tape) trap stock was my first trap gun. Now I use a Browning Trap Spe., for 16 yards, Doubles, and Hdicap.
The 870 with a 26" was my first skeet gun. Now I use a Browning O/U with 28" barrels.
The 870 with an 18" barrel was my first "3 Gun" shotgun. Now I use a Benelli M1 Super 90.
The only hunting I do is coyote, and again the 870 was my first coyote gun. Now the Benelli with a 26" barrel is the coyote getter.
Side Issues:
If you reload, the auto will throw your shells into a pile 7' to 8' away on the ground, and you will need to pick them up. The O/U, you just pull them out of the chamber and drop them into your pocket, and move on. The O/U will shoot any load that will pattern, and the auto will shoot almost any load too.
With the auto, you put one choke in the barrel, and use it for all the shots at that station. The O/U, you will put one choke in the "Under" barrel for your first shot, and a second choke in the "Upper" for your second shot.
If anyone complains about hitting them, with your sent shells, just tell them to "Move their Fat A$$ back to where they should be standing, when its your turn to shoot!"
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In my case I couldn't decide, so over the years I bought a rem. 1100 12ga that I use for turkey and waterfowl, deer hunting and clay shooting. I then bought a citori 20ga for grouse, rabbit and pheasant hunting, and clay shooting. For clays I don't compete, so the shell casings from the 1100 doesn't bother anyone next to me, except I have to gather them a few feet away and the 20ga breaks just as many clays as the 12ga. One nice thing about the citori though its a lot easier carrying though tough grouse cover for a whole day. But like I said I couldn't decide so I bought both the semi, and the o/u, well actually 3 because I had to have a A-5 sweet 16 too.
O/U's dominate the clay target sports for lots of reasons - long term durability / no cycling issues / 2 barrels mean you can have different chokes in each barrel ( like Skeet in one and Mod in the other).
Browning and Beretta will give you by far the most gun for the money in their O/U's ...and easily 500,000 shell reliability. There are over 20 models of the Citori in the Browning lineup of guns ...are they cheap, no -- they're solid, well made guns / and a good value. Picking the right Citori for what you want to do is different....one of the most versatile guns they sell is the Citori XS Skeet with the parallel adj comb...and new they're around
$ 3,000 ....peronally, its the model I use, with 30" barrels, for Skeet,sporting clays, 5 stand and upland birds...so its very versatile.
A good semi-auto ...a modern design ( not the Auto 5's )....in gas guns Beretta has most of the market...again solid guns / good reliability. But again they have at least 15 different models...they're not all equal...some have more adjustability than others....
Bottom line - is a shotgun has to "Fit" you ...so it hits where you look. Your eye is the rear sight...and you have to figure that out as well.
Stay with a 12ga....you'll have a lot of variety in terms of shells ( 1 1/8oz, 1 oz , 7/8 oz...)....
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get out to your local club ...shoot some clays, talk to a lot of guys about shotguns ...what they bought, why, would they buy it again, swing characterists, barrel length, chamber length...all this stuff.../ rent some guns if you can ....before you buy.
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An entry level pump gun - like a Browning BPS Hunter model, 12ga, 28" barrel ....for around $550 new is a solid gun / and a gun you'll probably keep a long time - even if you move on to semi-autos or O/U's down the road, if you get serious about clay targets. I still have the BPS's I bought in the late 70's ...even though they aren't my primary target guns these days...I still like shooting them once in a while...
You don't need to invest in a solid long term clays gun right away .../ take your time in making a gun selection so it'll last you for 20 or more years if you choose wisely / start out slow - shoot a few thousand targets with a pump gun as a starter gun ...and develop your fundamentals...before you invest a few thousand dollars in a gun ( but the cost of the gun, if you get into registered targets - is by far the least expensive part of your investment)..
Browning and Beretta will give you by far the most gun for the money in their O/U's ...and easily 500,000 shell reliability. There are over 20 models of the Citori in the Browning lineup of guns ...are they cheap, no -- they're solid, well made guns / and a good value. Picking the right Citori for what you want to do is different....one of the most versatile guns they sell is the Citori XS Skeet with the parallel adj comb...and new they're around
$ 3,000 ....peronally, its the model I use, with 30" barrels, for Skeet,sporting clays, 5 stand and upland birds...so its very versatile.
A good semi-auto ...a modern design ( not the Auto 5's )....in gas guns Beretta has most of the market...again solid guns / good reliability. But again they have at least 15 different models...they're not all equal...some have more adjustability than others....
Bottom line - is a shotgun has to "Fit" you ...so it hits where you look. Your eye is the rear sight...and you have to figure that out as well.
Stay with a 12ga....you'll have a lot of variety in terms of shells ( 1 1/8oz, 1 oz , 7/8 oz...)....
-------------------
get out to your local club ...shoot some clays, talk to a lot of guys about shotguns ...what they bought, why, would they buy it again, swing characterists, barrel length, chamber length...all this stuff.../ rent some guns if you can ....before you buy.
-------------
An entry level pump gun - like a Browning BPS Hunter model, 12ga, 28" barrel ....for around $550 new is a solid gun / and a gun you'll probably keep a long time - even if you move on to semi-autos or O/U's down the road, if you get serious about clay targets. I still have the BPS's I bought in the late 70's ...even though they aren't my primary target guns these days...I still like shooting them once in a while...
You don't need to invest in a solid long term clays gun right away .../ take your time in making a gun selection so it'll last you for 20 or more years if you choose wisely / start out slow - shoot a few thousand targets with a pump gun as a starter gun ...and develop your fundamentals...before you invest a few thousand dollars in a gun ( but the cost of the gun, if you get into registered targets - is by far the least expensive part of your investment)..
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semi_problomatic
New member
Lou, you really think you can get a few shots off while a guy with a semi reloads? What are you taking? I want some.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4TvIHp47c08&desktop_uri=/watch?v=4TvIHp47c08
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y49Z8tyNJEE&desktop_uri=/watch?v=y49Z8tyNJEE
First vid guy reloads 8 rounds in less than 15 seconds, second guy reloads 8 rounds in around 5 seconds.
Some people say recoil is less? Some people say recoil from a weapon using part of the energy to cycle the bolt is less than a fixed breech? No...physics says that. Less recoil makes it easier to get off an accurate second shot. So yes, two barrels might be faster just shooting two shots, but less recoil means faster accurate shots. And only shooting 1-2 shots? Pardon? There a skeet range you only shoot once or twice at? Coulda sworn you shot more than that at those things....
http://internationalsportingclays.com/best-sporting-shotguns/
According to that, semi's dominate sporting clays for under $2,000. But then, I can't think of many semi's that cost MORE than $2,000....
O/U's have the advantage of screw in chokes? You mean semi's don't have screw in chokes? Weird...I thought they did...
And as far as only NEEDING two shots? Why do you NEED more than one shot?
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4TvIHp47c08&desktop_uri=/watch?v=4TvIHp47c08
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y49Z8tyNJEE&desktop_uri=/watch?v=y49Z8tyNJEE
First vid guy reloads 8 rounds in less than 15 seconds, second guy reloads 8 rounds in around 5 seconds.
Some people say recoil is less? Some people say recoil from a weapon using part of the energy to cycle the bolt is less than a fixed breech? No...physics says that. Less recoil makes it easier to get off an accurate second shot. So yes, two barrels might be faster just shooting two shots, but less recoil means faster accurate shots. And only shooting 1-2 shots? Pardon? There a skeet range you only shoot once or twice at? Coulda sworn you shot more than that at those things....
http://internationalsportingclays.com/best-sporting-shotguns/
According to that, semi's dominate sporting clays for under $2,000. But then, I can't think of many semi's that cost MORE than $2,000....
O/U's have the advantage of screw in chokes? You mean semi's don't have screw in chokes? Weird...I thought they did...
And as far as only NEEDING two shots? Why do you NEED more than one shot?
allaroundhunter
New member
Semi, are you reading complete posts? He said that they have two barrels so that you can use two different chokes at once (which can be a good thing).
Get off several shots using an O/U while a guy with a semi reloads? Eh, possibly. An O/U is certainly faster to reload for someone who doesn't specifically practice such things. If you want to put a 3-gunner against an Olympic skeet shooter to prove a point then I'm not quite sure you are proving a point at all. Especially when you have them dropping two in the tube at a time.
As far as recoil, shooting the under barrel first allows for minimal recoil. It sends recoil in line through the shoulder. You know how people talk about bore axis with pistols? The same applies to shotguns. And an O/U has a lower bore axis when shooting the under barrel.
And seriously, what do you mean "when do you need two shots"?.... Sporting clays, skeet, they all have two shot positions.
Get off several shots using an O/U while a guy with a semi reloads? Eh, possibly. An O/U is certainly faster to reload for someone who doesn't specifically practice such things. If you want to put a 3-gunner against an Olympic skeet shooter to prove a point then I'm not quite sure you are proving a point at all. Especially when you have them dropping two in the tube at a time.
As far as recoil, shooting the under barrel first allows for minimal recoil. It sends recoil in line through the shoulder. You know how people talk about bore axis with pistols? The same applies to shotguns. And an O/U has a lower bore axis when shooting the under barrel.
And seriously, what do you mean "when do you need two shots"?.... Sporting clays, skeet, they all have two shot positions.
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SauerGrapes
New member
If your budget is limited, nothing wrong with buying a semi auto. If your going to be hunting also, that 3rd shell may come in handy.
semi_problomatic
New member
Sure all around. But is he asking for a skeet gun or a gun he can use for hunting AND skeet? Read the origional post. AND Lou did not say that you could use 2 different chokes, he said O/U's had an advantage of screw in chokes for versitility. You read the post.
Also, we're not talking about PROFESSIONAL 3-gunners. Watch the videos. It's guys who 3-gun, probably about as much as guys who skeet shoot seriously. And if you compare the pro's, you really think an O/U has an advantage over a semi? Maybe IN skeet shooting, where you have a cap of 2... Too bad he didn't ask for the best clay shooting gun...
Also, we're not talking about PROFESSIONAL 3-gunners. Watch the videos. It's guys who 3-gun, probably about as much as guys who skeet shoot seriously. And if you compare the pro's, you really think an O/U has an advantage over a semi? Maybe IN skeet shooting, where you have a cap of 2... Too bad he didn't ask for the best clay shooting gun...
allaroundhunter
New member
Any 3 gunner practices reloading their shotgun more than a skeet shooter. If you want a fair comparison, go with a skeet shooter who uses a semi vs one who uses an O/U. I can guarantee that I can fire 20 shots from my 3 gun shotgun faster than most anyone can fire it from an O/U, but I certainly don't wear my shell caddies when I am out bird hunting or shooting clays. To be honest, I think the relapsing portion of this comparison is just unnecessary.
And I apologize about the choke thing. Yes, the way he said it came across like you read it, but I am hoping that is not what he meant.
And I apologize about the choke thing. Yes, the way he said it came across like you read it, but I am hoping that is not what he meant.
semi_problomatic
New member
I couldn't find any skeet gunner reloading videos for examples, or I might have.
Allaround, thanks for backing me up. I think you possibly represented me better than I could. 
Lou
Sorry, I forgot to say I was thinking of different chokes in the two barrels (that's almost always the way I use mine). That is a huge advantage when shooting oncoming targets: the lower barrel choke is tighter and fired first as the bird is farther away, then the more open choke is fired last as the target is closer (either a miss or a second bird). And the same is true for birds going away where the more open choke is used first.
Correct we are not. But my original post said the two shooters each had a bag of cartridges. What I meant by that was a shell bag worn on the body like trap, skeet, and sporting clays shooters use, not sets of shell caddies where all of them are aligned and ready to load. So each shooter sticks his hand into a bag of randomly oriented shells.
I suppose it depends on what you are shooting. For doubles (two birds thrown) either simultaneously or on report, you definitely need two shots. But when only one target, your point is very valid.
Lou
allaroundhunter
New member
I couldn't find any skeet gunner reloading videos for examples, or I might have.
I've asked a couple skeet shooters to try to reload quickly, sometimes it gets kinda funny
semi_problomatic
New member
Back to this:
http://internationalsportingclays.com/best-sporting-shotguns/
For under $2000 (and under $1000) semi's rule for best guns for sporting clays. Solidly beating O/U's.
Add in that he wants to hunt with it as well...
http://internationalsportingclays.com/best-sporting-shotguns/
For under $2000 (and under $1000) semi's rule for best guns for sporting clays. Solidly beating O/U's.
Add in that he wants to hunt with it as well...