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NYS Info help
- Thread starter Kragax
- Start date
You have to ask is NY, a state which until a week ago (and probably still) believed owning a handgun is a privilege to be granted only by a permit has a no retreat law?
There is nothing of the sort here. You have a duty to retreat so long as that would not place you at greater personal risk. The argument can always be though that turning your back on an attacker is increased risk.
You have no civil protection as well. If the shoot is not prosecuted criminally the criminal who you shot or his next of kin can sue if they want. This applies in your own home or on the street.
There is nothing of the sort here. You have a duty to retreat so long as that would not place you at greater personal risk. The argument can always be though that turning your back on an attacker is increased risk.
You have no civil protection as well. If the shoot is not prosecuted criminally the criminal who you shot or his next of kin can sue if they want. This applies in your own home or on the street.
No
No, you are obliged to retreat if that is possible.
(I'm glad this is the law - to kill someone as a second last option - when I could have just run away - is not in keeping with the "last house on the street" meaning of Lethal Self-Defense - and I would not want to have killed someone unless it WAS the final choice.)
NY Penal Law Article 35.15 (my underlining for your question)
Keep in mind the phrase "with complete personal safety": in other words, you aren't obliged to retreat if so doing puts you at risk of the serious injury/death you are trying to avoid. If someone has a gun on you from 3' feet away, says "Move and I kill you", turning your back and trying to run is not something "completely safe" - nor to me in that situation would be running period, whether he said something or not.
No, you are obliged to retreat if that is possible.
(I'm glad this is the law - to kill someone as a second last option - when I could have just run away - is not in keeping with the "last house on the street" meaning of Lethal Self-Defense - and I would not want to have killed someone unless it WAS the final choice.)
NY Penal Law Article 35.15 (my underlining for your question)
§ 35.15 Justification; use of physical force in defense of a person.
1. A person may, subject to the provisions of subdivision two, use
physical force upon another person when and to the extent he or she
reasonably believes such to be necessary to defend himself, herself or a
third person from what he or she reasonably believes to be the use or
imminent use of unlawful physical force by such other person, unless:
(a) The latter's conduct was provoked by the actor with intent to
cause physical injury to another person; or
(b) The actor was the initial aggressor; except that in such case the
use of physical force is nevertheless justifiable if the actor has
withdrawn from the encounter and effectively communicated such
withdrawal to such other person but the latter persists in continuing
the incident by the use or threatened imminent use of unlawful physical
force; or
(c) The physical force involved is the product of a combat by
agreement not specifically authorized by law.
2. A person may not use deadly physical force upon another person
under circumstances specified in subdivision one unless:
(a) The actor reasonably believes that such other person is using or
about to use deadly physical force. Even in such case, however, the
actor may not use deadly physical force if he or she knows that with
complete personal safety, to oneself and others he or she may avoid the
necessity of so doing by retreating; except that the actor is under no
duty to retreat if he or she is:
(i) in his or her dwelling and not the initial aggressor; or
(ii) a police officer or peace officer or a person assisting a police
officer or a peace officer at the latter's direction, acting pursuant to
section 35.30; or
(b) He or she reasonably believes that such other person is committing
or attempting to commit a kidnapping, forcible rape, forcible criminal
sexual act or robbery; or
(c) He or she reasonably believes that such other person is committing
or attempting to commit a burglary, and the circumstances are such that
the use of deadly physical force is authorized by subdivision three of
section 35.20.
Keep in mind the phrase "with complete personal safety": in other words, you aren't obliged to retreat if so doing puts you at risk of the serious injury/death you are trying to avoid. If someone has a gun on you from 3' feet away, says "Move and I kill you", turning your back and trying to run is not something "completely safe" - nor to me in that situation would be running period, whether he said something or not.
kennybs plbg
New member
I don't agree with the posters here, NYS is one of the most liberal states in the country regarding self defense laws and firearms. Article 35.15 is just one part of the penal code that does not cover Castle Doctrine Laws.
You may say NYS always had the Castle Doctrine Law.
http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article35.htm
kenny b
You may say NYS always had the Castle Doctrine Law.
http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article35.htm
kenny b
YES, At HOME
Thanks to the above poster for making this clear. My original answer that you had to attempt retreat was because I assumed OP was speaking of need to retreat in incident outside of home - on the street; some states, a few, don't require that - to the best of my knowledge. NY does require attempt to retreat outside of your residence.
HOWEVER, Inside your residence is a totally different situation, and has just been pointed out you don't need to retreat in your home.
Very sorry if this confused the OP.
Thanks to the above poster for making this clear. My original answer that you had to attempt retreat was because I assumed OP was speaking of need to retreat in incident outside of home - on the street; some states, a few, don't require that - to the best of my knowledge. NY does require attempt to retreat outside of your residence.
HOWEVER, Inside your residence is a totally different situation, and has just been pointed out you don't need to retreat in your home.
Very sorry if this confused the OP.
HOWEVER, Inside your residence is a totally different situation, and has just been pointed out you don't need to retreat in your home.
Very sorry if this confused the OP.
Same here. I know of no state where you must retreat within the home.
I know of no state where you must retreat within the home.
Right, legally your house is the final retreat, there's nowhere left to go.
kennybs plbg
New member
This "must run" if you can statement is also confusing. It doesn't mean you have to run away, it means you have to avoid if possible and not put yourself in a situation to begin with.
If a building had two stairwells and one always housed a gang of known trouble makers, you are expected to take the other. It's when you willfully put yourself in a situation that you are breaking the law and can be held accountable.
It would be best to know the NYS Penal Code/Law article-35, the link has been given.
kenny b
If a building had two stairwells and one always housed a gang of known trouble makers, you are expected to take the other. It's when you willfully put yourself in a situation that you are breaking the law and can be held accountable.
It would be best to know the NYS Penal Code/Law article-35, the link has been given.
kenny b
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This "must run" if you can statement is also confusing. It doesn't mean you have to run away, it means you have to avoid if possible and not put yourself in a situation to begin with.
That's true. Or it could mean run also, under certain conditions. It's basic meaning is if it is possible, with safety, to retreat from the danger you must do so before using deadly force, if this will likely avoid the attack.
----------------
There's a good - though expensive - handbook often recommended for learning about CCW and SD Law in NY State: Loose Leaf Law : Firearms Law, New York. There was information about it at my County Pistol Permit Office - the only publication noted there.
http://www.looseleaflaw.com/catalog/detail.html?isbn=1-889031-04-6
Has all CCW and SD Law in NY State + relevant case law with commentary from experts (former State Police Captain, retired, head of firearm division and former Prosecutor).
It's about $40 and will be a continuing yearly subscription with additional costs beyond 1 year - with legislative changes and case-law updates sent to you. I canceled after the first year. The basic laws and commentary were enough. (If you get it and want to do the same, after the first payment, write and cancel further ones.)
It also includes sections for security officers and other areas that will likely not be relevant for a private gunowner/ccw. But for the parts that are, you get very good professional commentary and complete laws + important case-laws.
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kennybs plbg
New member
I still believe it's better to know the law than someone elses interpitation of the law. Article 35 in NY is the law, anything else should be taken with a grain of salt.
kenny b
kenny b