rantingredneck
New member
OK I've just come home from Bass Pro Shops in Charlotte (really Concord), NC and have had one of the most frustrating shopping experiences of my life.
The backstory:
My father in law who has been my hunting partner for 10+ years had open heart surgery last year. Triple bypass and pacemaker. He's doing well, but no longer has the strength to draw a bow. Per NC's game laws he has applied for and received a special disability permit allowing him to use a crossbow during the archery season for deer.
The legal issues:
A little known facet of NC's laws relating to firearms and weapons is that in order to purchase a crossbow you must obtain a pistol purchase permit from the sheriff's office in the county in which you live. Yes folks, the same permit issued for the purchase of a handgun is needed to purchase a crossbow. You can legally purchase a rifle or shotgun or recurve/compound bow without it, but there's just something extra dangerous about those newfangled crossbows that requires an extra level of control.
We were prepared for this, however silly it might be. We picked up his handgun purchase permit this morning on the way to Concord. We got to Bass Pro and the guy who sells the archery gear wasn't available (on lunch). We had to wait a half hour for him to get back. Then we asked a few questions about different models and he gave good answers but really seemed to be hard selling the 700-1000 models. My father in law is more of a 300-400 model kinda guy as am I. We settled on the purchase, a Horton Summit package with red dot, and headed for the checkout. Once we got to the checkout is where things got screwy.
The 4473?
OK I never in a million years expected to have to fill out a 4473 for a crossbow. It is not a firearm. Why does the ATF give a crap about it? You don't have to fill one out for a muzzleloader. That's more akin to a firearm than something that propels a bolt by way of a dacron string. I asked about this and the Bass Pro employee informed me that because NC, NJ and NYC were "restricted zones" for crossbows that the federal form had to be filled out too. That basically the feds have adopted the local/state laws restricting them. Beyond the fact that I felt really bad about NC being compared so closely to NJ and NYC when it comes to a weapon related issue.........we continued.
So, as I have done many times before in many gun shops I proceeded to help my FIL fill out the form. He has poor up close vision and even with glasses struggles with the fine print. Usually I fill out his demographic info and let him answer the list of yes/no's and sign. Never had a problem with this before. In fact, the forms that I have not filled out for him, his wife has! So the guy doesn't say boo about this yet, but when the manager gets up there to approve it he tells the manager that I filled out the form and my FIL signed it. The manager says that's a big no-no :uhoh:, but since it's already done, they want a copy of my DL too! At this point we've been up there for over an hour dealing with this so I relented and gave them the little pull out plastic and leather pouch out of my wallet that contains my DL and my CHL. The guy goes in the back and copies both and asks me to sign them!
He then tells me to go back and cross out and correct the abbreviations NC and KY (FIL was born in Kentucky) as abbreviations aren't allowed on the 4473. Well duh, but NC and KY are accepted abbreviations used by all other government agencies and I've NEVER had that questioned either. I mention this to the employee and manager and they claim that because BassPro is so big they are subjected to greater scrutiny.
Sheesh!!
OK sorry for the rant
So, I guess the point of this was to point out how frustrating it can be to even buy a crossbow in NC, but also to ask. Is the 4473 really required here for this or did these guys just not know their posterier orifices from the proverbial gopher hole? Is it not OK for someone with low vision to receive assistance in filling out the form as long as they review the form and sign attesting to its accuracy? Hell, I'd wager that half the people in the US do that very thing with their taxes, is this any different? Should I have been required to provide them with my DL and CHL here?
The backstory:
My father in law who has been my hunting partner for 10+ years had open heart surgery last year. Triple bypass and pacemaker. He's doing well, but no longer has the strength to draw a bow. Per NC's game laws he has applied for and received a special disability permit allowing him to use a crossbow during the archery season for deer.
The legal issues:
A little known facet of NC's laws relating to firearms and weapons is that in order to purchase a crossbow you must obtain a pistol purchase permit from the sheriff's office in the county in which you live. Yes folks, the same permit issued for the purchase of a handgun is needed to purchase a crossbow. You can legally purchase a rifle or shotgun or recurve/compound bow without it, but there's just something extra dangerous about those newfangled crossbows that requires an extra level of control.
We were prepared for this, however silly it might be. We picked up his handgun purchase permit this morning on the way to Concord. We got to Bass Pro and the guy who sells the archery gear wasn't available (on lunch). We had to wait a half hour for him to get back. Then we asked a few questions about different models and he gave good answers but really seemed to be hard selling the 700-1000 models. My father in law is more of a 300-400 model kinda guy as am I. We settled on the purchase, a Horton Summit package with red dot, and headed for the checkout. Once we got to the checkout is where things got screwy.
The 4473?
OK I never in a million years expected to have to fill out a 4473 for a crossbow. It is not a firearm. Why does the ATF give a crap about it? You don't have to fill one out for a muzzleloader. That's more akin to a firearm than something that propels a bolt by way of a dacron string. I asked about this and the Bass Pro employee informed me that because NC, NJ and NYC were "restricted zones" for crossbows that the federal form had to be filled out too. That basically the feds have adopted the local/state laws restricting them. Beyond the fact that I felt really bad about NC being compared so closely to NJ and NYC when it comes to a weapon related issue.........we continued.
So, as I have done many times before in many gun shops I proceeded to help my FIL fill out the form. He has poor up close vision and even with glasses struggles with the fine print. Usually I fill out his demographic info and let him answer the list of yes/no's and sign. Never had a problem with this before. In fact, the forms that I have not filled out for him, his wife has! So the guy doesn't say boo about this yet, but when the manager gets up there to approve it he tells the manager that I filled out the form and my FIL signed it. The manager says that's a big no-no :uhoh:, but since it's already done, they want a copy of my DL too! At this point we've been up there for over an hour dealing with this so I relented and gave them the little pull out plastic and leather pouch out of my wallet that contains my DL and my CHL. The guy goes in the back and copies both and asks me to sign them!
He then tells me to go back and cross out and correct the abbreviations NC and KY (FIL was born in Kentucky) as abbreviations aren't allowed on the 4473. Well duh, but NC and KY are accepted abbreviations used by all other government agencies and I've NEVER had that questioned either. I mention this to the employee and manager and they claim that because BassPro is so big they are subjected to greater scrutiny.
Sheesh!!
OK sorry for the rant
So, I guess the point of this was to point out how frustrating it can be to even buy a crossbow in NC, but also to ask. Is the 4473 really required here for this or did these guys just not know their posterier orifices from the proverbial gopher hole? Is it not OK for someone with low vision to receive assistance in filling out the form as long as they review the form and sign attesting to its accuracy? Hell, I'd wager that half the people in the US do that very thing with their taxes, is this any different? Should I have been required to provide them with my DL and CHL here?