Nugent takes heat over CCW comments

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deanf

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http://www.denver-rmn.com/news/0815ted3.shtml

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Nugent book stop peaceful
Rocker signs copies at LoDo bookstore

By John C. Ensslin
Denver Rocky Mountain News Staff Writer


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Two police officers stood guard Monday as rock 'n' roll gun rights advocate Ted Nugent signed copies of his new book.

The autograph session at the Tattered Cover Lodo went peacefully as several dozen fans lined up with copies of God, Guns and Rock N' Roll.

There was a minor stir when one man asked that Nugent sign a guitar. (Books only, Nugent's representative explained).

The book signing came under protest from several people who objected to Nugent's use of the Columbine High School massacre as an argument for allowing people to carry concealed weapons.

In the book, Nugent, an avid bow hunter and a director of the National Rifle Association, suggests that someone could have stopped one of the two killers as he reloaded his weapon.

"Bad guys are classic cowards," Nugent wrote. "But the horror of it all is it appears nearly everybody subscribes to the cowardly lion routine.

"Even Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were nearly robotic in their methodical slaughter. After emptying a double-barreled shotgun, one knelt with his back to grown adults and athletes, sniveling, while he conversed with his next victim for minutes on end."

"He fired twice from an obviously two-barreled shotgun, folks! Somebody take it away from him and beat him senseless PLEASE!!"

Tom Mauser, whose son Daniel was one of the 12 students killed, called Nugent's statements "despicable."

"I think he's living in this fantasy world where kids are crybabies if they don't fight back against somebody holding a gun."

As for Nugent's claim that one of the gunmen could have been rushed, he pointed out there were two killers, each with two guns, one with 15 bullets and the other with 30.

He also noted that his own son shoved a chair at one gunman only to be shot a second time.

"That's why it's so despicable for him to suggest they could have fought back," said Mauser, spokesman for SAFE Colorado, a gun-control group formed after Columbine.

He had no objection to Nugent's book signing. However, Tattered Cover owner Joyce Meskis said the store fielded several complaints.

"It's hard, because we have a lot of personal connections to the Columbine community and want to do all that we can.

"But to inject our bias or the bias of another group into the decision over whether to allow an author to come is an affront to the First Amendment."

Contact John Ensslin at (303) 892-5291 or ensslinj@RockyMountainNews.com.[/quote]

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"Anyone feel like saluting the flag which the strutting ATF and FBI gleefully raised over the smoldering crematorium of Waco, back in April of ‘93?" -Vin Suprynowicz
 
"I think he's living in this fantasy world where kids are crybabies if they don't fight back against somebody holding a gun."


News flash, Mauser: your kid is DEAD because he refused to fight! All he had to do was jump on those stupid bastards and beat the hell out of them, but instead, he cried and whined and said "Please don't hurt me." AND NOW HE'S DEAD because YOU drilled that pansy-ass mindset into him!

Someone give me that pusillanimous wanker and 5 minutes, PLEASE! :mad:
 
Well, I don't know which child could have taken this action, and I don't know how many lives it could have saved. But, I do know:

1. Those people who had pushed 'gun-free' school zones and other such areas are effectively parties to this kind of slaughter. They make me and my children more vulnerable to criminals by their illogic. I resent this deeply, and these fools should be confronted at every turn. We should never let them forget that they are parties to such slaughter.

2. Mass violence and shootings have been terminated when someone either rushes the shooter, and / or uses their own weapon to terminate the violence. This is a fact. And, there is no question that some of these instances have resulted in death or injury to those brave souls. But, the fact remains that the anti-self defense movement's advice to remain passive in the face of such violence simply creates more victims. And, one begins to wonder if that is ultimately the goal of the anti-self defense movement ... more victims, to help sell more control.


I can never feel, and certainly pray I will never feel the pain of this father. But, IMHO, he is basing his self defense beliefs upon a foundation of ignorance. Common these days, it would appear.

Live and let live. Regards from AZ
 
You may recall that in the Springfield, Oregon school shooting a student, who was a NRA member or dad was, rushed the shooter when he went empty and stopped it. He knew the sound.
 
Coinneach, you are right, does Mauser (may Paul never know what dolts his relatives became) think that dying a coward is better than dying a hero? If you are gonna die or there is a good chance of it anyway, the bullet holes better be in the f****** front not the back.

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Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"
 
I got slammed on the doomer board when I stated-and I still believe-that the cops outside in full battle gear were chicken**** bitches for not going in and doing their job. My dad has argued that they couldn't know who the good guys vs. the bad guys were....BULL****! The BAD GUYS had the GUNS!

Teacher bled to death in that time frame...more kids were killed.

GO IN AND DO WHAT YOU VOLUNTEERED TO DO!

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Satanta, the Whitebear
Sat's Realm: http://SatantasRealm.tripod.com/Entrypage/entrypage.html

My Disability petition: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/DisbHelp/petition.html
 
(deep breath)

I apologize for my rather overheated comments above... but that jackass Mauser has been in our face since the massacre, telling us that WE are personally responsible for HIS kid getting offed by a couple of known psychopaths. I'm to the point where I detest the man and his cowardice nearly as much King William.

You want "despicable," Mr. Holier-Than-Thou? "Despicable" is when you can't accept that your kid was murdered and you place the blame on people who had absolutely NOTHING to do with it. It's when you cry and snivel like the weak little schmuck that you are, and you try to make the rest of us as weak as you.

"Despicable" is in your mirror, Mauser.

[This message has been edited by Coinneach (edited August 15, 2000).]
 
Satanta,

I have a SWAT cop friend who agrees with you, and I agree with him. He was astounded that the SWAT teams, and even the first cops on the scene, didn't go in the building in force, and take those two vermin out. That is their job, he says. The real culprit may have been the commanding officers, who seem to have delayed authorizing the entry.

I recall seeing on the TV cops milling about outside, awaiting orders to be sent in, and being shocked by it.

[This message has been edited by Covert Mission (edited August 15, 2000).]
 
If I remember right ONE officer tried but was ordered to stand down. In the beginning a "trained" officer engaged in a brief fire fight but "left to secure the outside or help someone outside....... My neighbor is a City Cop and I have to believe that he has run more rounds through his toys than I have. I KNOW that anyone with training could have defeated those two little pukes. WTF. I agree with Coinneach and Satanta 100% after I went through CC training I went on a mission to train my 3 kids. Let two little pukes show up at their school and see what happens. They know guns and know what to watch for, and if close enough, know how to take it away from you and unload it on your sorry a$$. God didn't say you couldn't be a Ram! I cannot understand the mentality of these people but I am beginning to think that the touted 80,000,000 is greatly exaggerated and the reality is about 33%. Is that enough of us to force reality upon the masses? I use the 33% because of UMC's general conference and it's votes to help ban our rights. Anyone else have ideas on this one?
 
Lawdog: Thanks for that link. I'll read it asap (too bad whoever did the web pages didn't do it in more readable page design, but I'll cut-n-paste)

I don't want anyone to think I was cop bashing, as I have GREAT respect for good LEO's. I also respect my SWAT cop friend's opinion. I'll have to read the linked report, and judge for myself, i guess.
 
According to news reports at the time, there WAS an LEO on duty at Colombine; he fired a few shots at the two killers, couldn't hit anything, and then got his own sorry a** to safety, leaving the kids to fend for themselves. Call him the Cowardly Cop of Colombine.

The spin machine then went into full speed. A week or so later, another local LEO termed the SWAT response "pathetic" and was suspended for his comments. When the suspension generated some bad PR, he was reinstated...but ordered to go to "psychological testing" to determine his fitness to be a cop. Others took the hint, and there was no more LEO criticism of the handling of this event.

Sounds like the good LEO's on SWAT were shut down by politicians masquerading as cops - which is what most (not all) LEO's above the rank of Lieutenant are, IMHO.

And the spin continues to this day...
 
Significant time and effort is now being spent by the law enforcement community to deal with the active shooters. Professionals are cognizant of the screw up at Columbine
and realize that the secure the perimeter and talk strategy doesn't work in these cases.

The law suits will crucify the local cops for this one.

About fighting, it's interesting. As I said before in Oregon, some kids went for it.

There was another school shooting where a teacher did a disarm of a kid.

In Luby's, some folks cowered. IIRC, a military man curled up in a ball and was shot. That TX state rep's dad was killed trying to resist. Some old ladies calmly and at full old lady speed escaped.

One can't really tell what you will do in such an instance. I can't really criticize anyone for their actions. I don't blame victims. It is easy to be a commando in a little box on your computer.

However, we can train and by allowed to carry in order to defend ourselves.
 
If I recall correctly the commanders at the Columbine scene refused to send any Special teams into the building at first. It took a Denver PO who's son was a student at the school and was trained and carrying tactical gear in his patrol car to basicaly say F@*K you to the scene commander and with a group of other like thinking officers go in.
I clearly recall seeing the video of this group going in against orders using a Fire Dept Pumper truck as cover.


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"TANSTAAFL"- R.A. Heinlen

"Molon Labe"- Leonidas to Xerxes at Thermopile
 
Coinneach, I know how you feel. It has only happened recently, but I've realized that there are a lot of people in this country who see cowardace as a virtue. It's despicable. What sickens me is that I see traces of this in myself. I've got a lot of weeding to do. We have been brainwashed to look at brave actions as foolhearty and something best left to "professionals."

The father reasons that his son couldn't have resisted because he tried by pushing a chair at them. What an idiot! You don't throw rocks at a rabid dog, you kill it.

The thing that most people forget about Columbine is that everyone knew that there were bombs in the bulding. The bombs were the first priority for the SWAT team as they could have killed everyone immediately. No one knew that they were all duds.

Any protracted length of time the SWAT team spent outside is unexplainable. It's also difficult to explain why one team didn't go to the shooters while another patrolled for bombs.
 
Enoch, re:

"One can't really tell what you will do in such an instance. I can't really criticize anyone for their actions. I don't blame victims. It is easy to be a commando in a little box on your computer."

How true. Many of use here, myself included, spend a lot of time talking hypothetically..."What if..." I hope most of us will never know. I also hope that if the occasion arose, I would do the tactically and morally right thing quickly enough, and drop the hammer on dirtbags like this. Of course, if you're a SWAT cop, it goes without saying. That's your job and not an option, and it can be a deadly one, hopefully for the BG's only. I think of the LAPD SWAT cops who rolled out on the N. Hollywood bank shootout. They rolled up within 20 yards of one of them, after many 100's of rounds had been sprayed, bailed out of their car and engaged him. It took BIG brass ones, imo, but to them it was war, and they were prepared to take it to the BG's. Very impressive.

[This message has been edited by Covert Mission (edited August 16, 2000).]
 
I'm not saying Mauser's son was a crybaby. Hell, he was just a kid. But he IS dead because he didn't fight back effectively. That is not a feeling or a suggestion--it is easily provable fact. He died before they did, ergo he didn't fight hard enough to stay alive. And if you're dead, do you really care if people think you're a crybaby or not?

More importantly, using his son as an example is pretty dishonest. His son, standing in plain view of a gunman with a round chambered, pushed a chair at him. Well, duh, he got shot. But Nugent is not talking about that kind of suicide, he specifically said he was talking about the times the shooters reloaded or gloated over victims while leaving the others uncovered. Maybe Mauser's kid never had the chance to do that--but a lot of them did and it would probably have saved his life. But they've been trained all their lives that the smiling face behind a gun is just misunderstood and if you show him love, he'll be your friend, while if you resist you'll both die terribly, so they cowered like rabbits.
 
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