NRA

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mnero

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For the record I believe, without the NRA we would have had our rifles and certainly our hand guns confiscated, a long time ago. I have posted before that IMO one should not always support the NRA(their positions that is not the organization) nor should one always oppose or support a particular weapons restriction. I have said this, not because I necessarily, support any particualr legislation, but because I believe one should always keep an open mind untill one has reviewed enough facts to have formulate their own opinion. I think some people, in the world, confuse blind obedience with loyalty. I believe in the latter with all my being; just as I would oppose the former with the equal zeal.

That said anyone live in MD? The hand gun and so called 'assualt weapons' restrictions are unfair to lawful gun owners and do not help prevent crimninals and crazies from obtaining such weapons, certainly without the effectiveness that might justify the restrictions. It is worse then just the bad laws as the juries and DAs are way out of touch and way out of control!
 
I've been an NRA member since about '73 and a life member since '75. While I support the NRA and 2nd amendment rights I don't need cop killer bullets, 30 round magazines (15 is enough for me) and some of the more lethal assault weapons. Trouble is if you let the devil get his foot in the door he wants to take it all. So I just go with the NRA position more or less.
 
Jimmy10mm, I realize the following may sound like rhetorical, or even worse, sarcastic questions. I assure you, they are not.

Quite seriously, what exactly is a cop-killer bullet, and what precisely, in your opinion is an assault weapon?

And finally, which assault weapons are more lethal than the other ones, and why? I sincerely would appreciate an honest, detailed reply. Thanks.
 
Jimmy10mm, I realize the following may sound like rhetorical, or even worse, sarcastic questions. I assure you, they are not.

Quite seriously, what exactly is a cop-killer bullet, and what precisely, in your opinion is an assault weapon?

And finally, which assault weapons are more lethal than the other ones, and why? I sincerely would appreciate an honest, detailed reply. Thanks.
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In my younger days, when I was a union ironworker, we might have called my post "overloading your ass with your mouth." :p Cop killer bullets were a teflon coated projectile said to capable of penetrating protective vests worn by police officers. Here is a wikipedia article on the bullets.

You've got me on the assault weapons. Yes, a 22LR single shot is no less lethal. If we can't have them the outlaws will. OTOH, personally, I am not attracted to "new fangled" rifles. I prefer the look and lines of the traditional hunting rifle. So I guess I have a certain prejudice toward weapons that are meant to be carried on the battlefield more than the hunt. I see no need to load more than five rounds in a rifle. FWIW, even at the local range I load no more than 10 in handguns that have a 15 round capacity.

Still, individuals have the right to own what they want to own. That said, in my view, anything that makes it that much tougher for our LEOs turns me off. They have a tough enough time without having to face the added firepower of such weapons. This is probably not a popular point of view but it is mine, I'm entitled to it and don't feel the need to "defend"it so I won't be adding more to it.
 
Jimmy you make good sense to me. We gotta protect our 2'nd amendment rights, but we gotta protect our LEO's too. I am not sure exactly how to do that, but I would rather do something and be wrong then just sit and do nothing(in this situation).
 
The problem with most of the changes and stuff like "cop killer bullets", "assault weapons" and "30 round magazines" is they don't address the real issue.

How many police officers have been killed by a "cop killer bullet"? KTW ammunition was never available to the general public. The cop killer bullet was a ruse to get a law that was so vague that it would have banned rifle bullets. The NRA proposed legislation which actually was very defining in what bullets should only be sold to law enforcement and the military. The NRA sponsored legislation passed in 1986! However the anti-gun crowd and media ignored it and put it down as ineffective. As Paul Harvey would say that is the rest of the story. Rather than opposing the banning of cop killer bullets the NRA was instrumental in the law that banned them from private use while protecting our rights by not having common rifle rounds banished. This a far truth from the fairy tale that you hear in the media that the NRA opposes anything and everything that is firearms rights related.

So if we told the whole story about the NRA and the legislation it has helped to design and pass in Congress we would see that the NRA also believes in some common sense stuff like criminals getting punished for possessing and using firearms, harsh punishment for using firearms in crimes, banning certain types of ammunition from public use and adjudication and reporting of people like the person that shot Rep. Giffords.

A firearm is an inanimate object which needs a person to use it. The people that misuse the firearms are the problem. Not the 99.9% of legal law abiding citizens whose firearms have never done any harm except when used for legitimate self defense which the Supreme Court of this land has ruled is a legitimate right of an American Citizen.

Is the problem caused by "cop killer bullets", "30 round magazines" or "assault weapons". NO! its the people that misuse them.

The politician will lie to you and tell you that all we need to do is pass a law and we will all be protected. A law merely defines a societal norm it is only as good as the enforcement. Or as we have found that when some laws are not defined well there are unintended consequences that sometimes eliminate the peoples rights and do nothing to protect them.

The NRA has been that barrier that keeps the common sense solution in the laws and prevents those who would sneak vague and critical stuff that would harm our rights in the long run.

Do I see eyeball to eyeball with the NRA 100% of the time? No! However, they are one of the best protections of our rights pound for pound. Ask President Clinton about crossing swords with the NRA.

The ultimate goal of some anti-gun people is the banning of all firearms. They will use the terms above to garner public sympathy for their cause to back door in vague stuff that can be used to ban firearms.

Hitler was pretty smart when it came to propoganda.... From Mien Kampf

"Propaganda must not investigate the truth objectively and, in so far as it is favorable to the other side, present it according to the theoretical rules of justice; yet it must present only that aspect of the truth which is favorable to its own side. (...) The receptive powers of the masses are very restricted, and their understanding is feeble. On the other hand, they quickly forget. Such being the case, all effective propaganda must be confined to a few bare essentials and those must be expressed as far as possible in stereotyped formulas. These slogans should be persistently repeated until the very last individual has come to grasp the idea that has been put forward. (...) Every change that is made in the subject of a propagandist message must always emphasize the same conclusion. The leading slogan must of course be illustrated in many ways and from several angles, but in the end one must always return to the assertion of the same formula."
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Does this sound like the formula you see in some media articles these days?


So what are "cop killer bullets", "assault weapons". and "30 round magazines" if not stereotyped formulas to get the attention of the public?

So when you see an article using these stereotypical terms do some research for the truth....

Bust up the Myth that the NRA has opposed all firearm legislation and has in fact come up with some pretty good laws that help to protect people and law enforcement officers while protecting your rights.
 
Jimmy10MM, just a few points for your consideration:

Handgun rounds, whether teflon coated, steel core, or both, simply do not generate the velocity necessary to penetrate body armor. These so-called cop-killer bullets have never once penetrated a police vest. Seriously, there is not a single example in the record of this ever happening. Find one, and I'll owe you a dollar.

The terms 'cop-killer bullets' and 'assault-weapon' were not even used in the common vernacular until the anti-gun lobby made them part a brilliant PR campaign to demonize gun owners and gun rights organizations like the NRA.

The modern semi-auto rifles like the AR15/M16 might not be your cup of tea, but in the same way that the M1 Garand endeared itself to a generation of patriotic World War II veterans and their offspring, now owning a civilian, semi-auto version of the standard-issue rifle for our soldiers is an overtly American and patriotic thing to do. They just so happen to come with 20 or 30 round magazines as standard.

The number of rifles OF ANY TYPE that are used in crime is extremely low for obvious reasons. This is not me talking, just look at the FBI uniform crime report. The use of what the anti-gun lobby has labeled 'assault weapons' in gun crime is actually as rare as hen's teeth.
 
Posted by AirForceShooter:
Come to Florida.
The NRA just screwed us over on open carry.

They're claiming victory.
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Two of the three pro-gun bills backed by the NRA in Florida this year have passed and are headed to the Governor’s desk. The last one passed in the Senate and is on its way back to the House where we hope it’ll be re-modified to be what we wanted in the first place.

The bill you're referring to (that last one) hasn't been finished. The Senate rejected the House's amendments and now the House has to deal with it.

So far, we (and the NRA) have had two complete victories and another which is looking pretty good right now.

Hardly a major debacle masterminded by the NRA.
 
The legislation supports open carry for permit holders only from what I read. I think many people feel that open carry should be open to everybody and feels that they are getting cheated by the NRA.

Some folks want this to be an all or none proposition I guess. That is why they feel betrayed. I understand their viewpoint that the 2A grants them rights that should allow them to carry anytime. I can understand the frustration of feeling you're being betrayed.

Sometimes the NRA takes a bite of the apple if they can't get the whole thing. The nature of the beast we live with today. There was a time Florida didn't have carry laws. Now they are talking about open carry for at least permit holders. The next step would to be to allow carry by citizens without a permit.

This battle for full 2A amendments is a work in progress. The Supreme Court has ruled on 2A rights but it is still being battled at the state level.

Remember folks we have gone from almost nothing to a ruling from the Supreme Court on the 2A and more states than ever with concealed carry and other laws.

We are not working at cross purposes the end goal is the same.
 
There was a time Florida didn't have carry laws.
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Yep, and we can thank the NRA for changing that.

Some folks want this to be an all or none proposition I guess.
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Unfortunately, they don't understand that there's a gap between principle and reality. The reality is that these things come incrementally. The NRA didn't betray anybody: they're doing as much as they can under the current circumstances.
 
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