NPOA horizontal sway

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inchrisin

Inactive
Hi all,

I'm new to shooting and this will be my first post on TFL. I've shot in prone position a few times and I've been told to practice my natural point of aim. It's said that the cross hair should move up and down. It does. There's also a little bit of a sway to the cross hair that moves left and right. Is normal? I'm hoping to find ways to limit/eliminate this.
 
Welcome to the forum.
Natural Point of Aim only helps you find the best alignment of body to target.
And to remove body stress induced sighting errors.
There's bound to be some apparent movement of the reticle in any scope with magnification.
It can be minimized with good technique, but will always be there to some degree.
Scope magnification exaggerates it.
At least as long as you have a heart beat and are still breathing.
And why some folks still prefer iron sights.
 
Be it right or wrong, this is how I find my natural point of aim. I get in desired position, and get the sights on target. I close my eyes and swing the barrel in circles, say six to eight inch circles. Then with my eyes still closed, get back on target, or where you think the target should be. Open your eyes. Are you way off target? That's okay. Adjust your body not the gun, to get back on target. Repeat the above until when you open your eyes you are on target. You now have your natural point of aim. This way you are using fewer muscles and will not become fatigued as soon. When you become fatigued, you tend to shake. When you shake when shooting, well, you know what happens. The sway or wobble zone is something all have. Some people have a very small wobble zone, some have large. Training can reduce that wobble zone. Finding a comfortable NPOA will help in that wobble zone staying smaller.
 
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Thanks. I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one. I'll definitely be doing some practice circles.

I didn't mention above that I'm practicing on a scope. Does anyone else have a technique that they use to help promote good NPOA?
 
Mike38 nailed it.

Use his technique to make sure your naturally pointing at the target. Move your body so that you do naturally point at the target. Do NOT muscle the gun over to point at the target. Use Mike38's technique.

You will always get the wobble.

Do the best you can to make sure the center of the 'wobble' is on target.

For target shooting: While you're wobbling squeeze the trigger when you're right on target, when the wobble takes you off target maintain your trigger pressure, when the wobble gets you back on target increase trigger pressure.

You see what's happening here don't you, since you only increase trigger pressure when you're on target the gun will only fire when you're on target, (the actual shot might come as a surprise to you) and of course you'll get a hit. (massive understatement---this technique takes a little while to perfect.)
 
I much prefer to use a different method to check NPOA. Once in my shooting position and have my proper cheek compression I close my eyes take several deep breathes open my eyes at the natural respatory pause of the last breath. If sights are not on target adjust body. Then repeat process.

I prefer this be cause it aides in the basics of a good stable shooting position bone support, muscle relaxation and NPOA. The deep breathing with the eyes close lets the body naturally relax.
 
@DaleA

It makes sense. You increasing trigger pressure as you line up the shot This would minimize any extra wobble that you might create by resetting the trigger. It sounds easy on paper. I think it will take a lot of patience. Thanks for the tip.
 
@DPI7800. This sounds like the right thing to do if you have lots of time. What would you do if you were taking a shot at an animal that was moving, or if you were needing to take a rushed shot? How far off center are you willing to stray? You'd have to move you hands and body a little to center and take a shot, right?

I'm very curious to hear an answer and willing to learn.
 
NPOA is one thing, and has been accurately described.

Sway is another thing, provided you are in your NPOA with proper points of contact and full use of the skeletal structure. Blood oxygen level, pulse, blood pressure all affect the cyclic wobble. Slight dehydration, elimination of salt and carbs and slight hyperventilation are methods which some people have found beneficial to reduce their blood pressure and thus their wobble. Cut caffeine and you might get pulse reduction, but I have not seen that in myself.

Tension is a huge contributor to the wobble as well. Much of it is mental and some relaxation techniques do help, you just need to find the right ones.

If you are getting cyclic up down, you can play with a rear squeeze bag to lock in better. If you are getting side to side, then you are likely not aligned directly behind the gun, which is essential for the best accuracy.
 
@inchrisin

This is a a routine that can be used when practicing positional shooting. For instance doing a work up for a hunt I'll do just reps of getting into a particular position check NPOA adjust until good dry fire a shot or 10 then get out of the position. Keep doing this until I can get into the position without having to adjust. Once able to accomplish that for at least 5 reps in a row go to live fire.

As far as shooting at moving game I don't. I don't "need" the meat I have livestock for that. So if I don't have a perfect shot on a static animal I don't shoot. Just the way I am. Plus I am primarily an archery hunter because I like getting up close to the game.. But don't get me wrong I do some rifle hunting also, usually pronghorn. Regardless of the tackle I am using I take it very seriously and will practice hard and frequently 6 months out.
 
Cross hairs do move up and down as you breath. Since we have to breath we need to find a point in our breathing cycle where there is the longest natural pause.

That is the bottom of the breathing cycle. Your cross hairs move up and down but are down when the breath is naturally let out and there is a pause before you take your next breath.

That is when you get your natural point of aim. Notice that is NATURAL, not forced point of aim.

The best way to check this is aim at the target without any muscling to get the rifle/sights on target. Close your eyes, take a couple natural breath and open you eyes. If your sights arnt on target, adjust your position making sure you don't muscle the rifle.

Close your eyes and breath a couple time. Open your eyes, if you're on target fine. If not adjust your position.

When you are on target again close your eyes, breath a couple times, drop the hammer while your eyes are close, at the bottom of the breathing cycle (we're drying firing here). Open your eyes when you're at the bottom of the breathing cycle and you should be perfectly lined up with the target.

If this is done properly, after recoil from firing the shot, you're going to naturally want to fall back in the total relaxed position. The sights should be lined up at that time. This is called follow through.

In breathing note I said Natural Breathing. Nothing forced, nothing exaggerated. Normal breathing like any other time in your daily activities while in a relaxed state.

No muscling the rifle what so ever. This screws up follow through.
 
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