Now that's a new one: Police consider pepper spray paintball guns for Dem Convention.

JimR

New member
No, I'm not making this up. Anyone ever hear of this before?

I guess tear gas for crowd dispersal is too much of an "area" weapon, while paintballs can be pretty darn specific. I'd sure be wearing a mask while shooting, as I've had pb's break in the barrel while shooting plenty of times.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Police consider pepper spray paintball guns for Democratic convention protests
By TOM VERDIN
Associated Press Writer
LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Police officers facing Democratic convention protesters next month may be armed with paintball guns that shoot balls filled with pepper spray.

The pepper balls, as big around as a nickel, would be used only against protesters who are violent or destroying property -- not against peaceful demonstrators, a police spokesman said Monday.

Pepper spray canisters are standard-issue for all officers, but paintball guns would allow police to strike specific troublemakers from a safe distance, Sgt. John Pasquariello said. They also wouldn't need to worry about wind dispersing spray.

"It's a very accurate weapon ... so you can pinpoint people, and then an arrest team would move in," he said.

Using the guns would be important, he said, "because we are certainly outnumbered in a mass demonstration situation and we need tools that can control a large number of people without hurting them."

Pasquariello said the Police Department has ordered paintball guns but he did not know if they had arrived or if officers had been trained in their use. A final decision on whether they will be deployed during the Aug. 14-17 Democratic National Convention hasn't been reached.

As a tactical measure, Pasquariello would not say how many were ordered.

Paintball is a war game in which players stalk each other with high-powered air guns, firing capsules filled with water-based paint. A stock gun that holds up to 10 balls costs $50 to $250 and semiautomatic models sell for up to $800, said Matt Boggs, a gun technician at I&I Sports in Carson, which sells paintball and martial arts equipment.

The balls have a biodegradable gel-like shell. Instead of paint, however, the projectiles under consideration by police would be filled with pepper spray.

Balls fired from a stock paintgun travel about 240 feet per second, leaving a quarter-sized welt when they strike the skin, Boggs said.

Participants playing at licensed paintball fields are required to wear face and eye protection, he said.

Police are aware of the injury risk, but officers who use non-lethal weapons, such as beanbag-firing shotguns, are trained to fire at the torso and avoid the head, Pasquariello said.

"You want to aim for the chest," he said.

When the capsule bursts, the pepper spray drifts up to the nose and eyes.

Protest organizers criticized potential use of the paintball guns, saying the weapons could inflame a crowd rather than quiet it.

"Police tactics can seriously escalate situations that don't need to be escalated, and that's why everybody is calling on them to use restraint," said Lisa Fithian of Direct Action Network, an advocacy group formed during the World Trade Organization protests last year in Seattle.

Demonstrators are considering asking police to forgo use of pepper spray altogether during the convention, said Don White, an organizer with the group Mobilization to Protest the DNC 2000, or D2K Network.

"Police can use other techniques that don't impose enormous suffering," he said.
[/quote]
 
When the $#@#$ city is being destroyed by rioters, not a damned thing was being used, when a political convention is going to be held pepper spray sniper units are being issued.

Unless, they plan on thunking the people going to the convention. "Hey, Diane, one for you." Thunk

"One more for Barb Boxer." Thunk

"Two for Al." Thunk Thunk "Hell, who can tell it it did anything, like thunking a tree."

------------------
Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"
 
I love it!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Non-Lethal Compliance Technology[/quote]

Now *that's* a marketing phrase for ya!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>PepperBall Projectiles should never be aimed at a suspect's eyes, face, or throat. Instead aim below the neck at the suspect's torso or center of mass area.[/quote]
I don't think I'd want to be the LEO tasked with shooting these into a crowd. I think the potential for putting out an eye and a big lawsuit is very high. Ever seen the paintball marshalls come down on a guy for removing his mask on the field?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Jaycor Tactical Systems recommends targeting a suspect with four to 10 PepperBall Projectiles on first contact. After assessing the suspect's compliance level, another four to 10 rounds can be fired if necessary. If there is no compliance after two applications, other measures should be introduced.
[/quote]

If you're not wearing winter clothing (i.e. padding), all I can say is *OUCH*. You ever get hit with paintballs? You get hit, you're yelling "HIT! HIT!" so the other guy knows your leaving the field and you don't get shot at any more. These things sting like he11!

If there's "no compliance" after 20 paintball hits, the target is probably feeling no pain due to chemical ingestion.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>. It is recommended that shots to exposed skin be avoided in training scenarios. [/quote]

No $hit!!
Anyone who's ever played paintball understands that!


[This message has been edited by JimR (edited July 25, 2000).]
 
not all paintballs break, i gather return fire would be frowned on...

it sorta seems like shooting a gun at someone, regardless of the nature of the projectile, is escalating the crisis.

dZ
 
Are the republicans planning this kind of pepperball protection or is it only those NRA / Republican protestors that are so extreme that they need to be shot at?

dZ
 
There is a less than leathal force show that the Discovery Channel runs often. The gas-paint ball gun is highlighted in a segment. It looks very effective. I spoke with a DOC training officer a while back who tested it. He said the guns/pellets performed as advertised, though you do not want to aim at the head for obvious reasons.
 
Saw a guy take a paintball near the center of his existence :) in a FOF class. He was mightly impressed.

On the other hand, it seems a better solution than waves of gun fire.

Too bad, civilians can't buy these. We only get real guns - for now.

The suicide by cop issue is a good usage for this stuff. I know several cases where this could have been used.
 
Pepper spray??

Its inhalation can cause acute hypertension (similar to ammonia inhalation), which in turn can cause headache and increase the risk of stroke or heart attack. Animal studies show various and sometimes profound reflex effects on respiratory and cardiovascular function. These include apnea, airway edema and constriction, systemic vasodilation, hypotension, bradycardia, and sometimes atrioventricular blockade and even asystole.

There have been more than 26 cases in California alone of people being killed by pepper spray.

Non-Lethal? Hardly.

So, any bets if the city will ban the use of gas masks?
 
Jim Diver:
why do you think the importation of foreign gas masks occured so soon after the Battle of Seattle? Because so many of the protesters had protective masks.
As for "non-lethal" vs "lethal", the incidence of problems with pepper spray is extremely low.My agency places it right above verbal commands in levels of use of force.
 
Police officers ... next month may be armed with paintball guns that shoot balls filled with pepper spray.

DOH! For a minute I thought they'd be using them against Albore. *sigh*
 
I hope these guys are better with paint guns than the Pasadena Texas SWAT team. MY family (me, wife and three each bro & sis in laws) kicked their tails about 11 years ago in a paintball match.

------------------
Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club
68-70
 
Scene: a political demonstration, outside a high-profile and high-security convention, starts to get out of hand. The police pull out guns and start shooting at non-deadly-threat people who then scream, run, and/or fall down in agony.

Does someone see something wrong with this picture?!?! Let me coin a phrase: "perceived escalation".

Never mind shooting someone in the eyes/mouth/throat with a toxic splatball, or the too-late discovery of respitory ailments.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>TexasVet:
I hope these guys are better with paint guns than the Pasadena Texas SWAT team. MY family (me, wife and three each bro & sis in laws) kicked their tails about 11 years ago in a paintball match.[/quote]

LEOs and former military are my favorite targets... they're too accustomed to real bullets to be very good at "the game."

Notable exception: The LRRPs (that's what they were, and that's what they call their team now). Positively frightening, but a great bunch of guys to play with.

I enjoy taking out Automaggots with my SC Phantom (really pisses 'em off :-) ... I wonder what the LEOs use...?
 
Some Quicktime videos of this stuff:

http://www.pepperball.net/video/index.html

DZ is right. The automatic weapon is an ATS AT-85 select-fire paintball marker. It looks a hell of a lot like a real firearm, and I think the fears about panic due to a crowd mistaking the thing for a true gun are valid and need to be considered.

I'm not sure this is the best thing for crowd dispersion. If you're targeting a specific individual, it looks great. But if you want to the crowd to just go away, maybe the old-fashioned gas is a better idea.


- gabe
 
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