Now that one of The Brotherhood has fallen ...

J

jimpeel

New member
I am going to say this outright: Why did it take the slaying of a police officer to get the rest of them to start acting on illegal aliens?

Now that it is one of their own who has been killed they suddenly seem eager to enforce the law. I'm really tired of the "us and them" mentality.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,318126,00.html

Arizona Police Routinely Asking for Proof of Citizenship
Sunday, December 23, 2007

PHOENIX — Police in suburban Scottsdale have begun routinely asking for proof of citizenship from every suspect they arrest and turning those who are in this country illegally over to federal immigration officials.

The procedure was started Oct. 15, a result of the September killing of Phoenix police officer Nick Erfle by an illegal immigrant, Erik Jovani Martinez.

Scottsdale police had arrested Martinez on a misdemeanor charge 16 months earlier but they released him then because they didn't know he was an illegal immigrant who had been twice deported.

Erfle's killing "caused us to look at what we're asking suspects," Scottsdale police Sgt. Mark Clark said. "If we arrest someone and then find that we called ICE (Customs and Immigration Enforcement) and they put a hold on them, then we know they have been deported and are back again."

Martinez was later killed by police after he stole a car and took a hostage, authorities said.

Now police in the affluent suburb ask every suspect about their citizenship, have ICE agents pick up those who are in this country illegally, and keep a database of possible illegal immigrants in case they turn up again.

Scottsdale Mayor Mary Manross supports the policy change and said that because every suspect is asked about citizenship, police are not engaged in racial profiling.

"I would not tolerate that," Manross said. "I think the chief has struck the right balance to do what we want to achieve."

Clark said that in the past Scottsdale officers didn't routinely call ICE about illegal immigrants because the agency was short-handed and could not always respond.

That's changed, said Eduardo Preciado, an assistant ICE field officer in Phoenix. The agency was short-staffed until about a year ago when it added agents to man phones and to assist local law enforcement agencies, he said.

"Now we respond to every call," Preciado said.
Click to expand...
 
Two questions:
1) What *is* proof of citizenship, and when do I have to provide it.. everytime I talk to a police officer or just when I am arrested?

2) What do you mean by "us versus them"? I am not sure if you are talking US vs illegals, or cops vs non-cops, or what. . . .
 
Two questions:
1) What *is* proof of citizenship, and when do I have to provide it.. everytime I talk to a police officer or just when I am arrested?

2) What do you mean by "us versus them"? I am not sure if you are talking US vs illegals, or cops vs non-cops, or what. . . .
Click to expand...

1. The story didn't go into detail as to when proof of citizenship is asked for.

2. I am talking about the cops vs us thing wherein as long as it is happening to the populace in general there is nothing done; but when it finally comes to visit them they are then all gung-ho to enforce a law they have been shirking.
 
Seems like I had to furnish a birth certificate to get a drivers license.

What is wrong with a national ID card? The wackos think it is next kin to a stamp from the anti christ or something. I agree with Newt on this , the credit card companies seem to keep up with you pretty well.
 
So now an officer is dead because we actively knowingly failed to secure the border. Yes, unfortunately, for better or worse, it sometimes takes tragedies to make society wake up and do something about a bad situation.
 
ZeroJunk said:
What is wrong with a national ID card? The wackos think it is next kin to a stamp from the anti christ or something. I agree with Newt on this , the credit card companies seem to keep up with you pretty well.
Click to expand...

I remember back in the early 80's while in the military, I smuggled a North Korean military defector out of the country. I stayed with him all the way back to northern Virginia and a few days afterwards until he became comfortable with his "new" friends.

Among the things we talked about were the communists incredible restrictions on travel and their incessant tracking of their citizens' movements.

A national ID card makes that too easy. I'm not a fan of the Patriot Act. But again, I'm not a fan of compassionate conservatism.

I'm a fan of "if we catch you crossing our border ILLEGALLY, we consider that INVADING our country, and as such, you are subject to being SHOT and KILLED."

That's what I'm a fan of.

I'm a fan of "if we catch you in our country ILLEGALLY, we consider you a foreign ENEMY, and as such, you are subject to being IMPRISONED for a long period of time."

That's what I'm a fan of.

I'm a fan of enforcing EXISTING laws so as not to have to create new laws or further infringements upon my existing RIGHTS, of which I have not abused.

That's what I'm a fan of.

Jeff
 
From the first sentence of the story...

"...asking for proof of citizenship from every suspect they arrest..."
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Good catch. Which implies that they aren't exactly asking you for proof of citizenship on the sidewalk and sending you off for deportation if you can't provide it. Presumably if you're arrested you've got at least a little bit of time to produce something, and they have a little bit of time to look into the issue.

Though still, I have to ask what is accepted as proof of citizenship. Especially as a natural citizen, I don't exactly keep my "prove I'm a citizen file" handy...I don't ever really think about having to prove it beyond maybe showing a Social Security Card when I get hired somewhere. But then, many illegal immigrants have fake SS documentation, so is that really "proof?" Is the burden on the suspect, or the cops?
 
their incessant tracking of their citizens' movements.

A national ID card makes that too easy.
Click to expand...

Ok. You have an estimated 20 million illegal aliens in this country, more coming, and nobody knows who they are. Give me a suggestion of how you want to determine who is or is not one of them?
 
Yeah, because nobody has ever faked a DL, Green Card or naturalization certificate, and nobody's going to be able to buy a fake National ID card.
 
Give me a suggestion of how you want to determine who is or is not one of them
Click to expand...

Well, the police in Arizona seem to have a way. Let's ask them.

National ID is unnecessary, a waste of money, and has the potential to enhance the governments ability to curtail our privacy and freedom.
 
Ok. You have an estimated 20 million illegal aliens in this country, more coming, and nobody knows who they are. Give me a suggestion of how you want to determine who is or is not one of them?
Click to expand...

That's not the point, your pro National ID stance to fight against illegal immigration is akin to the banning handguns and "assault" or military style weapons because they could kill more people.

I hate to cite the overused Franklin (not really him I read) quote, so I won't. In essence, the Natl. ID has the potential to be very detrimental to individual freedoms. Even if it has some benefits in the short run, too many problems could arise with its use that will definitely NOT be an easy fix, especially when the big govt. is tasked to rectify it.

As far as the police subculture, every organization and community has a subculture. It will never end because it's natural to humankind. There is an "us vs. them" mentality even within the ranks of PDs.
 
I know what you mean. It's just like car window tint laws often get ROUTINELY IGNORED by law enforcement, until there are a couple of stops that go bad because the cop couldn't see through the tint. Then all of a sudden it is a law worth their time. Never mind the public safety when people drive with too much tint at night and cannot see properly to drive. Putting everyone in danger. No no. It's only when there is a cop safety issue that it becomes important. The rest of us and our safety don't mean much, judging by efforts.
 
the Natl. ID has the potential to be very detrimental to individual freedoms.
Click to expand...

That's just a crock. If you are an average citizen of this country, I can find you in five minutes with a drivers license number, SS number,any insurance policy number,credit card number, etc.

Yeah, because nobody has ever faked a DL, Green Card or naturalization certificate, and nobody's going to be able to buy a fake National ID card.
Click to expand...


Tried to fake a credit card lately? How is it they can do it.
 
jimpeel

I am talking about the cops vs us thing wherein as long as it is happening to the populace in general there is nothing done; but when it finally comes to visit them they are then all gung-ho to enforce a law they have been shirking.
Click to expand...

In many states, including mine, LEOs are not allowed, by law, to inquire whether a detainee is a citizen or not.

Maybe you need to do a little research before you start a rant about LEOs.
 
jimpeel said:
Why did it take the slaying of a police officer to get the rest of them to start acting on illegal aliens?
Click to expand...
Because by and large we are a reactionary people. Richard Reid had a bomb in his shoe and now millions of people remove their shoes to go through airport screening. If he had hidden a bomb in his rectum, I have every confidence that the TSA would be having passengers drop trou and grab their ankles before boarding.

Nightclub fire kills hundreds because exit doors are chained shut = no more chaining doors shut.

Schoolhouse fire kills dozens because doors open inward = no more doors opening inward on public buildings.

Dale Earnhardt dies in an unspectacular wreck = head and neck restraints now mandatory in all NASCAR automobiles.

Kids OD on parent's medicine = child-safety caps on all medicines.



Yet carrying a firearm everywhere you go is looked upon as paranoid by these same people. :rolleyes::barf:
 
Speaking of not doing any research.

Maricopa County (the county Scottsdale is in) is home to Sheriff 'Smokin' Joe Arpaio known as the toughest Sheriff in the Country. His Sheriffs department detains more illegal aliens then any non-federal law enforcement agency in the country. Been at it quite a while. Ever since AZ passed a law making it possible to arrest illegals and the feds gave local police authority to detain. NOT news. Scottsdale is following not reacting. ICE is reacting. But not to Scottsdale, to Smokin' Joe leaving them mounds of work every day and yelling for more personnel at the Federal level to handle his volume.;)

As for a national ID, done deal already folks. More no research just knee jerk. It's called Real ID. A Federal Standard for STATE issued Drivers licenses. This is being fought by the States but some have already adopted it. North Carolina is one of the first. It is good for North America, not just your State and AZ Governor Napolitono has proposed AZ implement it. STRONG disapproval was the response as Real ID uses RF ID to be tamper proof and also making it detectable and readable from a distance without the bearer being aware.

In short, the whooping about Johny Come Lately enforcement is inappropriate as that area of the US is as unfriendly to illegals as they come. Maricopa County and the State of AZ as a whole have done far more to deal with illegal immigration then the feds or any other State. And it is about as 2A friendly as it gets to boot. And your State has ALREADY been given Real ID as an unfunded mandate.

THIS thread has AZ latest example of AZ's leadership.
The Scoop on Sheriff Arpaio is FAR to extensive to provide links. So HERE'S a Google for ya to check out.
 
sasquatch

In many states, including mine, LEOs are not allowed, by law, to inquire whether a detainee is a citizen or not.

Maybe you need to do a little research before you start a rant about LEOs.
Click to expand...

Yes, and those are what we call sanctuary states and cities. The cops are prevented from enforcing the laws as written because some mucky-muck decides they don't want the PD "profiling" people; which, by the way, is a word that was made up by those who don't want the police to watch them and was designed to make the PD feel guilty.

Read the article and see what I was talking about when I bolded certain words and phrases which are germane to my premise.

I have done the research and maybe you should do so also.

Try reading the 2006 Congressional Research service Report entitled "Enforcing Immigration Law: The Role of State and Local Law Enforcement" (pdf)

'Sanctuary Cities' Embrace Illegal Immigrants

Newsom pledges to make SF a sanctuary for illegal immigrants

Sanctuary Cities: A New Civil War

Is Houston a sanctuary for illegal immigrants?

The Illegal-Alien Crime Wave

Councilman: Policy Makes Durham 'Sanctuary' for Illegal Immigrants

A good site for a list of sanctuary cities.

From 9/11 Commission hearings:

COMMISSIONER JOHN LEHMAN: "Were you aware that it was the US government established policy not to question or oppose the sanctuary policies of New York, Los Angeles, Houston, Chicago, San Diego for political reasons, which policy in those cities prohibited the local police from cooperating at all with federal immigration authorities?"

CONDOLEEZA RICE: "I do not believe I was aware of that."
Click to expand...

But there is hope.

States Crack Down on Sanctuary Cities for Illegal Immigrants

Tougher Employer Laws Forcing Illegals to Pack Up and Leave Arizona

GOP bill targets 'sanctuary cities'
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top