Not sure what I have here

[wiggler14]

Hi,
I hope someone can help me identifying what I have.
As you can see from the pictures the gun has exposed hammers and is a double barrel(smooth bore). It seems to be .410 in caliber but I'm not sure. I once tried a 3" .410 shell in it but it wouldn't seat all the way into the chamber.
I took the gun to a gunsmith and after waiting for about 2 months for information on it they finally told me it was a black powder gun. Not sure about that one though.
Both firing pins are damaged and would need work.
Here is what I could find stamped on the gun:
1. On the side of the receiver it says "J.Manton & Co".
2. On top of the barrel it says "Laminated steel" and "Government tested".
3. Under the barrel near the muzzle it says "T.C L 700" and "1670"
4. When you remove the forearm there are a number of symbols printed. There are multiple British pound symbols as well as an oval with crown on top of it. Inside the oval is "ELG"
I can't seem to find a serial number on it.

Thank-you for any help
Brent

 

[joab]

Manton is an old English shotgun manufacturer or actually maker.
But I believe ELG are Belgium markings. Alot of knock offs came out of Liege Belgium in the late 1800s and early 1900s.

I also believe that 3" shotshells are relatively new it would probably be chambered for 2 3/4

I would not under any circumstances shoot any modern shell from that thing as long as you had use for you thumbs.

I would be very hesitant to shoot it at all unless it was thouroughly checked out by an expert first

Did a little research apparently .410 British is a 2 1/2" shell as opposed to the standard 3" .410 shell
Also although I can't get a definite year of introduction of the .410 apparently it is between 125 and 130 years old which would be about the last days of J Manton & Co's existance

 

[Mike Irwin]

Actually, it's probably chambered for the old 2.5" shells.

It's a knockoff, made in Belgium. The Belgian proof, the term laminated steel, and the fact that J. Manton & Co. only operated until about 1874 (a little too early for the .410 cartridge) are pretty good indications that this critter isn't really from Manton.

The term "laminated steel" (Damascus-type hammer welded) didn't come into use until "fluid steel," or solid steel barrels became common, and that wasn't really common in shotguns until the 1890s.

Given that laminated steel barrels lose strength over the years as the seams corrode, I would not attempt to fire this gun.

 

[Harley Nolden]

These are low grade Belgium exports guns. A number of these guns were offered in several models in 1900. Even though these guns were not actually made by Manton & Co, the famous English gun maker, the name J Manton & Co was used to impress buyer.

Quotes from SXS's of the World 2k by Charles Carder

HJN