Not-so-concealed

D

dev_null

New member
Premise 1: You live in an Open-Carry state.
Premise 2: You have a CCW license, by whatever name it's called in your state.
Premise 3: You are legally carrying concealed, when a gust of wind exposes your weapon.
Premise 4: For purposes of this discussion, IGNORE any issues of whether open carry is a good or bad idea, or whether the blissninny soccer mom will drop her latte on Junior in her hurry to call 911 on you. Concentrate on the *legal* aspects only.

Question: Problem or not?

IOW, if it's legal to open carry, why should it matter if your CCW is accidentally exposed?

Discuss, if so moved.

- 0 -
 
It shouldn't be a problem but some of the things that I've read from others (not verified due to I don't live in the state that they do/did at the time) that having a CHL can bite you in the butt, even in a open carry state, due to the fact that the license says "concealed".

It, it my mind, shouldn't be a problem but you know how laws are, you never know :(.

Wayne
 
minor problem

Since 'concealment' is generally illegal in all but AK & VT without a permit, then unless you have a permit visible, a 'common observer' will have just possibly witnessed a crime. If the observer is law enforcement, then you may legitimately be challenged for possession of a permit.

How's this to complicate things:

In a moment of absent mindedness, you have forgotten to renew your otherwise valid permit to carry from your home state.

You carry a non-res. permit from a reciprocal state which is valid.

officer 'common observer' politely notes that your home state permit is expired.

You interrupt, hang on, I've got a valid permit in my wallet...

Then what? :D
 
Since 'concealment' is generally illegal in all but AK & VT without a permit, then unless you have a permit visible, a 'common observer' will have just possibly witnessed a crime. If the observer is law enforcement, then you may legitimately be challenged for possession of a permit.
Click to expand...
BS. I mean, I can see how some rabid sociofacist cop/DA might think that (because they generally don't think), but it simply doesn't make sense given how most laws are written.

They say "blah blah no concealed carry unless <license>"; Well, if you have a concealed carry license, that crime doesn't apply; in most open carry states there are no laws forbidding open carry. There are no laws forbidding a transition from concealed to open carry, or vice versa.

Where's the crime?
 
Tyme - you answered your own question

sort of..


blah blah no concealed carry unless <license>"; Well, if you have a concealed carry license, that crime doesn't apply;

SS: right. The gun is exposed, and no permit is visible. If you are a LEO and see someone like that. Gun under jacket, and said jacket then exposes the gun because of some movement, you've now witnessed what is a crime, and the exemption to the charge is a permit. If it's not visible, and the person is not 'known' how would you know that person is not a criminal ( only for concealing ).

I'm not debating the rightness, or wrongness of whether it should be legal, or respected as your right. I'm simply pointing out that if you're discovered concealing where that is a crime, what do you reasonably expect to happen?
 
Because licenses are the exception rather than the rule, the cop has reasonable suspicion to conduct a terry stop, at which point he can do an "officer safety" frisk, find the gun, then demand to see the CHL. If you don't produce it, you're a criminal, and it's off to the pokey.

I think it's absurd: officer safety frisks are questionable if not absurd (because they're so often abused to find drugs/contraband), CHL licensing is absurd, a distinction in the law between open and concealed carry is absurd, and reasonable suspicion based on the mere possibility that the person doesn't have a CHL is absurd. But I realize that's how things work.
 
If open carry is legal, there is no legal problem with accidental exposure of your firearm. Practical problems may ensue, but they won't usually be able to charge you with anything that will stick.

However, some of the gun-hating cops out there might try to pin "disturbing the peace" on you or the like, and you may have to hire a lawyer to whip their butts for you.
 
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In Indiana you wouldn't have a problem because our "gun permit" is not a CCW but simply a license to carry a pistol - whether duct-taped to your forehead or concealed in an IWB holster.

Don't duct-tape a pistol to your forehead, though. Please.
 
ccw%20badge%206374.jpg


See, that's why you need one of these! :D

j/k


On a serious note, it might get you checked out, but that's about it. The only "brandishing" case I'm aware of (in my area) was a jack-azz who was walking through the mall intentionally flashing people (documented by a number of clerks from a number of stores as well as a number of customers and the man's own admission). He was a bounty hunter and what some would call a "wanna-be" Cop. He gave a black eye to a lot of folks with his need for attention.
That was quite a while back, and again, the only brandishing case I've heard of with a permit holder.

TBO
 
I don't really see a problem with it. I suppose some overzealous rookie might get his panties in a twist and try to make a stink, but around here, the sergeant would probably send him to wash the squad cars 'til he cooled off. I wouldn't want to try it in Portland, though.
 
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