[NOT OT!] How do you explain to a woman...

K

KaMaKaZe

New member
*clearing throat*

Now that I have everyone's attention with this thread, we may begin.

This past Saturday I took my girlfriend to the shooting range. I had recently bought a Taurus model 85 ultra-lite and she was itchin' bad to shoot it. I would assume it was for nothing other than visual appeal. I explained to her that I would be more than happy to let her shoot it all she wanted, but that she would care little for it. She looked puzzled, and I attempted to explain that because it had a 2" barrel and weighed approximately 1/3 the weight of the .38 she usually shoots that she would not enjoy shooting it. Just to soften things up, I had brought along a wimpy box of .38s I had loaded. Some SWC 148gr loaded with 3.5 of BullsEye or was it 3.2? :confused:. Fairly light load (at least, the softest I have). After 15 shots, she could not land a single shot on the paper at 10yrds. For the life of me, I couldn't figure it out.. She is a really good shot by most beginner standards.. Before she had picked it up, she was shooting a S&W model 63 .22 (snub-nosed .22) at a target at 25yrds and hitting it every time. To make the long story somewhat shorter, she was seriously disappointed.

I was trying to explain a few things and I'm quite certain that none of my points managed to make it home. I don't want to run it in the ground, so I thought I was better off leaving it to the wise TFL group that you are to help me out with this one. I'm being serious now (!), please leave it that way.

How do you explain to a woman...
<OL TYPE=1>
<LI> that just because a gun looks nice, it doesn't necessarily make it fun to shoot, reliable or worth what they're asking for it? (otherwise, looks aren't everything)
<LI> that your gun does not need to be fashionable if you're carrying it so that you are the only person that ever sees it?
<LI> that there is a difference between a gun that you shoot for fun and what you use to carry concealed?
<LI> that a gun that may be uncomfortable to shoot (like a snub-nosed .38 that she thinks "looks good") is not an unreasonable choice to carry because the point being that you may never have to use it, but if you do, you want it to be effective?
<LI> that just because you can't hit the 10 ring the first time you pick it up that you shouldn't give up on it?
<LI> that because you can not hit a 8x10 target at 10yrds doesn't mean you can not hit a life-sized person at 9ft?
</OL>

Am I just trying to argue something that I can not prove to someone who's just about already made up their mind (as I see it)? I haven't made any real advances towards these issues, but I think its something important for her to consider. Thank God she enjoys shooting .22s on a regular basis. However, she thinks that a .22 is more than adequate for self defense. (a gun is a gun arguement) I would rather have her carry a .22 than nothing.. but a .38 than a .22.

Are there any similar experiences that someone can share.. or some advice that someone can give me? Or am I fighting a lost cause here?

HELP!

For similar situations, please see this thread. :D

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God, Guns and Guts made this country a great country!

oberkommando sez:
"We lost the first and third and now they are after the Second!(no pun intended)"
 
As far as showing which caliber to carry, a friend told me the best way to teach someone (youngster) the potential devastation of a gun is not to shoot paper or cans, a .22 will look almost the same in the 10 ring as a 44. Shoot targets they can relate destructive power to, fruit (grapefruit works well), jugs of ice, steel plates, etc.

Stress that 22's are training pistols and that the better she understands the principles of shooting with the 22, the better with the 38. As I am haveing big problems with anticipating recoil on my 40, I have reverted back to snap caps (suggestions from TFL'ers) to cure my flinch. Maybe you can load a snap cap somewhere in the mag, so she can see her flinch. I am sure right now, she is assuming that she is shooting both the exact same way (true of anyone), showing her different will take the blame off the gun and put it on her, where she will be able to improve with perfect practice.
 
I disagree with 3, 4 and 6.

3. If you don't have fun shooting with the gun you carry conceiled, you are not going to get proficient with it. See 4 and 5 below.

4. If not comfortable and competant with it and have total confidence in it: It is not a defensive weapon.

6. If one can not hit an 8X10 target at 10 yards, they most likely can NOT stop an attacker at 9 feet. Hitting is NOT stopping.

Be VERY careful when you try to explain to her that "Looks aren't everything".

Sam...What's more fun than a .357 snubbie? A .44 snubbie.
 
Thanks guys.. Like you suggested Sam, I am being careful.. thats why I'm pleading for help. She is becomming very proficient with a .22 at this point, but she feels she can ward off an attacking grizzly bear with a .22. I'd have a better peice of mind knowing that she was competent with whatever firearm she happened to be carrying.

I'm with you on your points Sam, and you might have pointed out a few fallicies in my judgement. The way I read her responses is that whatever firearm she carries "has to look good." Well, thats great and all.. but picking out a nice S&W .357 isn't going to fit her fancy even though it might "look good." Then again, she is short on patience whenever she can not immediately get satisfaction from shooting.. which is okay. However, I think that she is a very good shot with the snub-nosed .22 she has been shooting quite frequently. Rather than suggest she shoot something larger, I let her work her way up to it on her time. Now that she wanted to shoot something a bit larger, thats great. Shes shot a nice K-Frame S&W in .38 and shoots it rather well. However, she also believes that she is going to find the EXACT SAME gun on a smaller scale. It just IS NOT going to happen. I have mentioned that briefly, but I think shes dead-set on proving me wrong. A 14oz 2" revolver is not going to handle like a 36oz 4" revolver, and she can't draw that conclusion.

Am I just barkin' up the wrong tree? :confused:

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God, Guns and Guts made this country a great country!

oberkommando sez:
"We lost the first and third and now they are after the Second!(no pun intended)"
 
Leave no tree bark unscented...my dog.

You might ward off a grizzly with the .22...shure as whey not gonna STOP it tho.

Long road to go...get realy good with .22, then move up to 6" bigger gun, then to smaller bigger gun.

Apples, oranges, grapefruit etc great. Not for in house practice tho. If have to practice in indoor range that is a problem too.

Test...when GF shows up with new hair do, say "Looks aren't everything" May save you a lot of trubble in the long run.

Sam
 
Kamakaze,

You might try taking your girlfriend to a bowling pin shoot. Seeing how difficult it is to knock pins off a table with her .22 should give her a better idea of its limitations.
 
1. As previously posted. Fruit, knock-down targets, bowling pins will all demonstrate caliber/quality difference.

2. Once #1 is taken care of... There are a lot of nice looking guns that work. Just steer her in the right direction. My wife loves the look of the Glocks. I'm not worried about their performance. WIN WIN.

3. Get her to pack a full size .44 in her purse for a day. Then she has an idea.

4. That's a hard one. I believe is was said best that a gun that she won't shoot is a gun that she won't want to shoot when it matters most. Just that slight flinch or hesitation when she needs it most is enough to negate the possible benefits of having the gun in the first place. Again, she needs to be steered towards something that looks good, works, and is reasonable recoil-wise, etc.

5. I carry a .38. I still can't hit the broad side of a barn at 30 yards, but anything in a 20 ft range is mine. Need to either work on the 15 yrd range or get another gun. Act out some scenarios with her, preferably at a secluded barn. :)

6. You should be able to hit at 30 yrds with practice. However, the closer the better. That's where she most likely will have to use her gun. Take her targets out to spitting distance. If she can kill on paper, that's about what you need for a small "last resort" pistol.


If all else fails:
1. Act as a live target to prove the ineffectiveness of the 22. Run at her with a cardboard knife and see how many hits you can take.
2. Call your local gunshop. Tell them about the _plan_. "Break" her gun. Then you have the perfect chance to take her to the local gun shop and rent a few. Let her try the best and the worst side by side. If she falls in love with a single shot derringer or that nice shiny Jennings, give the signal to the salesperson. He can then explain that it is a piece of junk, is on layaway, or is missing a couple zeroes on the end of the price tag.

My wife hates my 38. Always refuses to shoot it. So why did she shoot it more than I did the last time out. Insistence? Boredom of the bigger guns?
I think it just takes time.
 
Best demo to show the effects of a bullet on a target would be a 10ga 1.75 oz Slug on a 1 gallon water bottle! I have done that when teaching Boy Scouts how to shoot, the looks on their faces tells me all I need to know that they understand the respect that need be given to firearms.

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Dead [Black Ops]
 
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