Norma brass vs the .22 Savage Hi-Power

C

condor bravo

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The .22 Savage Hi-Power cartridge is rather unusual and has the reputation of limiting brass to only two or three reloads. Do you have any experience with this cartridge? The .25-35 Win is the parent case and bullets are .227 or .228 rather than .224. Hornady has 70 gr jacketed bullets and Montana Bullet Works has 60 gr gas checked cast bullets.

I have worked with the HP for some time with a Savage model 99 lever action. Most brass has been formed from Winchester. 25-35 cases along with some factory brass like Winchester and Dominion and one or two others. Jacketed Hornady bullets are used with 3031 powder and the cast bullets with Trail Boss. I have never got more than three reloadings, and usually just two, before the necks split. All cases are affected the same way, split necks, with Dominion cases usually just holding up to one reloading.

Some reports have indicated failures around the base but I have not come across that at all. Ken Waters in Handloader magazine tried unsuccessfully to tame the HP, what he called "the imp" and only reported two or three loadings before the split necks showed up.

However my rounds are surprisingly accurate.

I have just obtained some Norma brass for the HP, aka 5.6x52R, from Graf. If five loadings can be obtained, Norma brass will be declared the winner over "the imp".

Others out there must have this caliber. What has your experience been with it and what brass do you use?
 
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Checking more of my fired .22 Savage brass, I do have a few other boxes of Norma brass with some cases missing which probably means they had split necks also. But will continue to load the Norma brass to verify. Was out yesterday and had six more neck splits with the formed .25-35 cases.
 
Ken Waters, Nov. 1983, in Pet Loads vol. I, paragraph 1...
stated that the 22 Savage Hi-Power was the most frustrating rifle cartridge he ever had the misfortune to tangle with. He complained of routine case separations.

We (my sister actually) have one in the family that belonged to my late brother-in-law. It's an old takedown he got from, I believe, his grandfather. There is a little bit of ammo in my cabinet for it, but I've never had the least bit of desire to tinker with it. I'm content to let it remind me of my BIL while it hangs on the wall.

Good luck to you, maybe you'll be the guy to figure out a viable and reliable combination.
 
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Well you might just want to tangle with it; it's an interesting challenge. The proper .227 and .228 bullets are still available. I haven't turned up any cracked necks yet with the new Norma brass but not enough loadings to make a statement. These Savage lever actions are coming into their own and sky high prices are being asked. So you might want to get out yours and take a second look at it. But I wouldn't sell it unless the price is very right.

I'm currently trying to get a .300 model 99 and it's being somewhat difficult. I have a want to buy post in one of the rifle sections. I'm hoping to latch onto one that is ideal.
 
I do not have a Sav 99,or a 22 Hi-Power. I can't speak specifically to them.

I can share some generalities about brass and split necks.
I don't know that 22 Hi-Power brass is a special case.

I'm thinking it boils down to work hardening and annealing.

I have no idea how hard virgin brass from the factory is.It is my opinion that if the necks start out annealed,there is no reason why you should not get as many reloadings as you might in any other 22 centerfire A) This applies to split necks.Stretch rings at the case head are another issue.And B) This makes the assumption the necks are not being overworked in the reloading process.

I suspect they might be,and I have a guess as to how.

Manufacturers like standard practices and tooling.It MIGHT be that the die portion that sizes the neck down is no different than a die for .224 bullets.Maybe you are sizing down to .219 or so from a fired brass size of .230 or so..And it Might be they just rely on the expander ball to just size it up to maybe .226 or so..I'm saying you might fire and have a .230 ID,size it down to .219 or so,as for a .224 bullet,then back up to .226 .That would split them.

You might try pulling your expander and measuring just how far you are sizing down.

What to do about it? I do not know if they only do Forster dies,or other brands,but Forster offers a die honing service to open the neck sizing portion of the die. Ideally,the brass is only sized down enough for the expander to only size up a little bit,,,I'll guess .0015 or .002.

There are also bushing dies that allow you to select a proper bushing to minimize sizing to just enough for neck tension.Redding makes them. Not cheap.

If 'twas me,I might have some fired brass on hand with neck OD/ID/wall thickness.And a bullet for dia. Then I'd call Forster and just order a full length sizing die HONED to minimize brass working. I'll bet its not Forster's first rodeo,and they can help you.I don't set their prices,but I'd guess $40 to $50,die and hone. Good dies! They do have a nice seater,too. A full die set would be great!

DO BE AWARE,Forster dies are a bit different.The expander ball rides high on the spindle,just below the shoulder.You have to read the directions and set them up right. No big deal,but you need to know.

And,the initial anneal might be important. That's another thread.
 
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HiBC
Roger on the info, annealing could well be the answer. Others it seems have come up with splits or perhaps separations at the base, mine are all neck splits.
 
Condor - maybe one of these days when I'm really bored, I'll do a chamber casting on it, but if the inside is as rough as the outside I doubt if it will become something I care to spend much effort or money on.

My brother-in-law was from Utah and he and his people regarded firearms like any other tool on the place, be it a shovel or a hammer or any other farm implement. They used them for a job, game harvesting, then set them in the kitchen near the stove. That's it, no special treatment, no sentimental attachments. After three generations, my sister's 99 is just a click above a relic, wallhanger.
 
HIBC
Interesting read on your HP experience. Yes I recall the Ken Waters article. Like your Dominion brass, mine were only good for one reloading. If I could find another HP at a low enough price, I would grab onto it just for comparison with what I have. Right now I am in the process of getting a .300 Savage 99 from a source in Washington state. Kind of getting hooked on these, having purchased a .250 Savage a few weeks ago.
 
oldscot3,
I hope you will do that, give it another chance to be frustrating but interesting. Bullets and brass are readily available as are loading dies. When loading .227 jacketed bullets, I find it necessary to flare the case mouths to prevent collapsing the cases.
 
Condor,Not my experience! I just found the article.I've never fired a 22 HP,and my 99 experience is very limited.

I find it necessary to flare the case mouths to prevent collapsing the cases.
Click to expand...

Another hint that suggests to me that your die manufacturer MIGHT not give due consideration to 22 HiPower sizing.They may be using the same reamer/hone they use for .223 or 22-250 just because the Hi_power is oddball.
I hope they did not give you a expander sized for .224 bullets.

I'd pull out your expander spindle so it does not "size up" Then I'd resize a couple pieces of brass. Given your bullet size is what? .227/.228? After sizing,but with no expander,see if a .224 bullet bullet will just slip fit the neck.
If it will,My hunch is wrong.
But if it will not,why size the brass down to more than .003 to .004 neck tension?
I'd expect that would give your expander ball .0015 or .002 to work with,to leave you about .002 neck tension to seat into.
Minimize theamount the brass is worked.

The sizing die can be honed to minimize working the brass.You may need a .225/.226 expander ball.
I'm not expert on these numbers. As I said,Forster or Redding can advise you.
I think the general idea may be your issue.
 
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The expander is .223 and a .224 won't begin to slip in when sized without the expander. So it all adds up to a tight bullet fit requiring neck flaring with .227 jacketed bullets and .228 cast bullets.
 
Well,that says it.
One more time,then I'll let it go.The dies are wrong. That is why your necks split.
Sizing them down for enough for an expander to have to neck them back up to still too small is an unnecessary overworking of the brass.
Your dies are set up for .224 bullets.
In addition to the work hardening,,.003 to.004 neck tension is too much.

They don't work at making inferior brass for the 22HP to make it problematic.
Its brass like any other brass. If it has a unique st of problems,what is unique about the HiPower? Bullet diameter.
 
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Yes .003 to .004 neck tension is excessive. I've never had a split neck during sizing and expanding, always after firing but the necks could be weakened by that time due to the sizing.
 
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