Non sulfur powder

[Docthebiker]

First post, so Hi to everyone.
I shoot 2 .44 Remies, an Uberti 8" and a Pietta Sheriff in stainless, plus a Pietta .36 snub nose.
I'm thinking off cooking a batch of BP without sulfur. From what I've heard it's the Kn03 and carbon that do most of the work. The sulfur is in the mix to bring down the ignition temperature.
I'm wondering if the 1075 Plus (hotter) caps would be reliable on a sulfurless mix of about 30gn.
Or maybe a small pre-load of about 5gn of regular Vectan in the back of the cylinder would work as a "starter" charge on a 23gn sulfurless load.
Has anyone any experience, or thoughts on shooting using a Kn03/C only powder?

The sulfur stink would be reduced (gone), but are there any advantages? Less smoke? Less/softer fouling? Economy?

 

[rodwhaincamo]

Like Triple 7 powder?

It doesn't require a starter charge. It does have a higher ignition temp and would require one in a flintlock, but percussion caps has always set it off for me.

It does have a little less smoke and much lighter fouling.

 

[Jim Watson]

I don't know. No reason not to try a batch.

I would leave the smokeless duplex to the Schuetzen guys.

 

[Centurion]

I did it...it works. And I used #10 Rem caps.

Below a very useful site from a Swiss black powder "Master" IMHO:

http://www.musketeer.ch/blackpowder/bp_menu.html

 

[noelf2]

What I've learned:

Primers will set it off reliably (shotgun shells and cartridges), but not so much with percussion caps. Use the hottest caps you can get.

Corn/compress regular or sulfurless powder. If you don't corn it, you will not have a very powerful load in the confines of a cylinder chamber.

Measure it by weight vs. volume for consistency.

 

[Centurion]

In any case you can manufacture it with less sulfur instead of none...

 

[B.L.E.]

Or maybe a small pre-load of about 5gn of regular Vectan in the back of the cylinder would work as a "starter" charge on a 23gn sulfurless load.

No. Don't use Vectan or any other brand of smokeless powder as a starter charge. While smokeless powder is a lot more powerful than black powder, it is not easy to ignite. That's why modern cartridge guns have very powerful primers.
In a duplex black powder/smokeless load, it's the black powder that serves as a starter charge for the smokeless, not vice versa.
If you want an easy to ignite starter charge, put one or two grains of commercially made black powder in first to ignite your sulfur free powder.

 

[Docthebiker]

Thanks guys, it's the kind of info I was after. I've got top quality willow char, and I always purify my Kn03 before using it so I can cook it up strong without sulfur. I've got 1075 hi gh temperature rifle caps which should set it off. If not I'll put a little Vectan pnf2 BP in the chamber in front of the cap.

 

[B.L.E.]

I wasn't aware that Vectan made black powder. I'm familiar with their smokeless powders and assumed that was what you meant. Apparently, their black powders are available in Europe. The U.S. distributor of Vectan doesn't offer it.
So disregard my post advising against using Vectan black powder.

 

[Docthebiker]

Yep. When I go into the local gun shop I ask for Poudre Noire Vectan. rolleyes: Even though a lot of Swiss speak English (so much better then I speak French, German, or any Italian) they use the term "Gunpowder" when speaking in English, even though "Poudre Noire" is a literal translation of "Black Powder".

I'm surprised that they don't import Vectan BP into the USA. Even buying my powders in Switzerland and having my choice of the worlds finest commercial
BP, Vectan is consistent, powerful, and everyone carries it.
It's not even that expensive as a .44 six shot cylinder with 25gn paper cartridges load works out at exactly 1/2 €uro (53 cents) in powder.

 

[g.willikers]

You know those news stories about gun powder manufacturing factories turning to mushroom clouds and dust?
That can be duplicated, along with the gun powder.
Be careful there Doc.
How about just buying Hodgdon 777, it ain't that expensive, especially considering the possible alternative.

 

[Docthebiker]

g.willikers I'm thinking of using the dry mix in a mixer and wet cook method (it's what I want to experiment with just to see what results I can get). I'll be switching on the mixer care of a 20 meter cable, and once it has the water added you couldn't set it off with an oxyacetylene torch.
The most dangerous point in that procedure is after it's been granulated and dried it can be ignited by the sieve. Mesh sieves are two intertwined layer of metal wire and can spark, while both metal and plastic sieves can build up a static charge.
That's a dangerous and often overlooked point of risk even in milled powders. They get through all the dangerous dusty bits (where a gnat's fart can set it off) with great care, and then because they've not blown themselves up, thus far, they relax.

 

[B.L.E.]

Fortunately, we can obtain Swiss which many here regard as the benchmark of black powders, buy it's about 1.5 times as expensive as the other brands of powders available. Goex, Schuetzen (made by Wano in Germany), KIK made in Slovenia and a few others.
The problem for us is that government regulates black powder as an explosive and the rules and regulations discourage a lot of sporting goods stores from carrying it. Smokeless on the other hand is regulated as a flammable solid and is on the shelves everywhere.
The whole reason for the existence of black powder substitutes like Pyrodex and triple 7 is to provide muzzle loading propellants that don't fall in the explosive category. Which is why those can be bought at nearly any sporting goods store.