Non lead ammo is not all created equal. Some is more dangerous than traditional lead.

M

Mystro

New member
I have been doing some research with non-lead ammo since more and more ranges are going that way. I am looking into testing some for a few local LE.
I had a suprise in my research. Turns out some non lead ammo is more dangerous than using traditional lead ammo. I was researching who the US Government was using and their tests criteria for non-lead ammo. One scary element popped up with ammo from Commonwealth Ammunition at USReloads that seems to be using silica as a binding agent and it has been flagged by OSHA as too much can cause Mesothelioma.:eek: There is a science to this and not companies use the same formula of bullets. I think the future is with non lead ammo at public ranges and there is safe approved non-lead ammo but not all have been tested so for now I am only looking into US Government approved non-lead ammo. At least those brands have been cleared by OSHA.
 
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Maybe DoE will sell you some depleted Uranium. :)
They don't seem to have EPA or OSHA breathing down their neck.
 
Don't breathe the bullets.
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Don't breath the dust, which is plentiful if you frequent indoor ranges.
 
It wouldn't be the first time the government banned something, only to replace it with something more dangerous or more harmful to the environment.

I don't recall seeing a single "lead free" box of ammunition at any of the local stores I frequent around here, I'm not sure what all the LE agencies use.
 
One scary element popped up with ammo from Commonwealth Ammunition at USReloads that seems to be using silica as a binding agent and it has been flagged by OSHA as too much can cause Mesothelioma.
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Silica is the second most common element in the Earths' crust.
Most people call it by it's better know name, Sand.
 
Mystro-where in Central PA are you located (I'm in DuBois), and where/how are you conducting your research? Regarding silica being used as a binding agent, are you free to disclose how it is used? Is it pressed under high tonnage, or baked at accelerated/high temperatures?

Note, that I am not challenging you by any means and happen to agree with your basic premise. If you wish to answer via PM or not at all or on the public forum, all are fine.
 
I would love to see the data on how much silica is produced when a lead free round that has silica as a binding agent in the smelting of the base metal is fired through a gun.

My gut would tell me that it is miniscule at best, almost un-measurable in most cases.

The silica is going to chemically bond to the metal and does not present as free silica - which is harmful when produced and inhaled in sufficient quantities over long periods of time. This isn't radiation - it takes prolonged exposure to have any deleterious effects on the lungs.

Basically - don't worry about it. You have more things to worry about breathing air when you walk through a parking lot at the mall than you do this.
 
Living in a sandy area, wonder if we get silica in our lungs just riding bikes on a windy day.
Or from the passing cars on a sand covered roadway.
Maybe if we are real careful and stay indoors all our lives, and never do anything dangerous all will be well.
But then we'll die of boredom.
 
I doubt if the "dangerous" silica is anything like desert or beach sand. Silica in powder form can be inhaled and embed in the lung tissue where grains of sand would be less likely inhaled.

And I would think that silica in an indoor range is as concentrated as lead, minuscule amounts, where breathing enough to do harm would take years of daily exposure...

jes my $.02...
 
Witch Science at its best.

One of my last assignments to an environmental office, US Army, shows exactly what bad science can make you do under the EPA's evil eye. Remember, EPA loves to beat up the military because they know there is a very large pot of money, our taxes, that they can force you to pay through fines. In our case, millions were spent, in a very big hurry, to bring Tungsten to the tip of our M-16's. It was a very expensive mistake. Tungsten works its way into the water table 100 times faster than lead even thinks about migrating. So, there we were, with a ton of Green Ammo that was environmentally a disaster. We need validated scientific info before people are forced into doing stupid things. You don't want to now the total cost of the Tungsten experiment do you, after all, it was OUR money wasted. In case anyone wants to know the location, Camp Edwards Massachusetts.
 
There is a lot of different forms of silica and can't be simplified as "just sand".
https://www.osha.gov/dsg/topics/silicacrystalline/mineoja/demolition.html

Not all non-lead bullets even use silica as a binding agent so there are better methods than the ones that use silica. The use of silica in this particular bullet was probably used as a cost cutting method?? Who knows...

Regarding the ammo, this was a disclosed statement from a Government review:

It has come to our attention that certain frangible ammunition contains silica as a binding agent which surpasses OSHA standards and prolonged exposure can cause Mesothelioma, the primary loader of this ammunition is Commonwealth Ammunition based out of Florida. Please consult your ammunition vendor and request a product MSDS, attached is the following information regarding the product in question:
Ø Ervin patent
Ø Information on OSHA limits for silica
Ø 1910 rules from OSHA regards to lead limits highlighted in yellow
Ø Elan Technology is named where they are getting the glass from in patent at 44 microns or less product 13 & 88 makes up a minimum of 5% of the bullet.

No public range or LE range would touch this stuff since it has been rejected by the government or military use. The quest here is to find a safe and effective alternative to lead ammo in areas where lead ammunition is restricted and not deal with additional health concerns unnecessarily.
 
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Silica dust is plentiful at indoor ranges? Really?
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Probably not, at least at the moment. Lead dust certainly can be, if the ventilation system is crap. I have been to a couple ranges like that, never went back. For a range than mandates frangible ammo, and you use that stuff it is not outside the realm of possibility. I don't expect much risk for the individual shooter, but much higher for the poor saps who work there.
 
I eat bacon and eggs for breakfast and the doc tells me every visit that it's killing me. I think he's wrong, it's got to be the biscuits or toast. Silica, lead, tungsten, or any number of things are harmful to us if over exposed. Hell if you read the health section of the newspaper it will have a article once a week saying how bout peanut butter is for you. I'm sure I've consumed several 55 gallon drums worth of it. Salt kills more of us a year than lead.
 
There is a lot of different forms of silica and can't be simplified as "just sand".
https://www.osha.gov/dsg/topics/sili...emolition.html
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Chemically it's the same as sand.
It's non-toxic and will do no harm unless the microscopic particles are inhaled over long periods of time.

Farmers often get "silicosis" from breathing too much dust from cultivation

The first sentence of your source says:
Crystalline silica is the basic component of sand, quartz and granite rock. Airborne crystalline silica occurs commonly in both work and non-work environments.
 
Mystro, when you refer to silica as a 'binding agent", is this during the smelting process of making copper or are your referring to bullets pressed from powdered copper particles (frangible bullets)? If the latter, silica could present a hazard.

Next time anyone visits a Lowes, Home Depot or similar store, take a walk over to where cement products are stored: silica sand will have a cancer warning on it (as do most bags of sand) and sand safe for kid's sand boxes, will be marked "safe".
 
The amount of silica is monitored with non-lead frangible bullets. They have to meet certain standard for LE and military use.
That was the problem with this one company. They didn't follow osha and were dropped from any LE or military consideration. That is certainly a death blow to a product and will require they adjust their bullet formula to osha standards to make the approved list of "non-lead" ammo.

You can make the best chocolate chip cookie in the world but if you can't get an FDA approval and get black listed by them then it's useless.

Right or wrong, and I understand the commonsense logic about it but no LE department will consider it especially if the military rejected it as being unsafe.
 
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