Non-HP Self Defense Ammo Question

M

mukibetser

New member
If you could not use 9mm HP ammo for SD, would you choose soft point or frangible. My #1 concern is avoiding overpenetration. Yes, I know HP is best and most effective, but for reasons I don't want to get into I can't use it. The firearms would be a carbine (Kel Tec Sub 2000) and a compact 9mm pistol. Thanks.
 
Federal makes expanding full metal jacket ammunition.

federalexpandingFMJ.jpg


Since there are more misses than hits in most shootings, people should be far more concerned with hitting their target than with "over penetration" of a target.
Or are you concerned with penetration through any and all barriers to a bullets path?

It would be helpful to the discussion if we distinguished the two to be able to focus and find a solution.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/
This site has a great deal of information that may interest you.
 
I have one 50 rd box of 9mm EFMJ. It is no longer available in 50 rd boxes as far as I can tell, but is now sold as "Guard Dog" ammo, or something like that, at $1 per round. It is a good solution, but affordability is an issue since I need to fire at least several hundred rounds per gun just to confirm reliability. So I was hoping to be able to use frangible or soft point which is around 1/2 the price of EFMJ.

I am concerned with overpenetration through the target as well as penetration through walls.
 
I personally can't think of a reason you "can't" use HP ammo, but instead maybe you choose not to for the unspoken reason you spoke of.

My answer is, if I absolutely had to, I'd pick up some of the Guard Dog ammo as previously commented on. But, I'm new to this type of ammo, and trust HPs too much to avoid them. Frangible rounds; never.
 
Pow-R-Ball is not hollow point. There are a few other "expanding" solid point profile bullets. Barring those, I'd look for a flat nose with as square a profile as my gun would feed. Somewhere around here, I have an ammo can full of surplus 9mm which the boxes indicate are "anti ricochet". They have a large flat meplat with a distinctly sharp edge and blow up water jusgs almost as well as HP.
 
After experiencing a few failures to feed with 9mm Federal 147 gr. JHP in a Glock 34, I'm personally hesitant to use any bullet design with a large, flat meplat.
 
IMO, firing Federal Guard Dog in your 9mm is like turning your 9mm into a 380 Auto.

You've got about a 100gr bullet penetrating 7 or so inches of ordinance gel and expanding to about .55 caliber.

If you're really worried about not over-penetrating your target then, well this is a very good round for not over-penetrating.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA7f69skz9g
 
Difficult to advise, not knowing more about your situation. I like frangible as in Glaser Blue, but only for very specific situations. This does not include carbines. I don't recall seeing any 9mm softpoints. So, you're left with FMJ which penetrates the most of all.
 
C0untZer0

IMO, firing Federal Guard Dog in your 9mm is like turning your 9mm into a 380 Auto.

You've got about a 100gr bullet penetrating 7 or so inches of ordinance gel and expanding to about .55 caliber.
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Wow--I have several hundred rounds still on hand from many years back when they sold the 124gr. EFMJ round. I had not realized they no longer offer this.

I would definitely prefer the .124gr round (I have not studied any reports on the new 100gr round).

-Cheers
 
I don't know why they don't offer it in 124gr anymore - that would seem to make a bettter bullet ballistically than 105gr. Maybe there is a LE only round for this in 124gr?

The marketing wonks at Federal have gotten a little carried away. They are now calling "Gaurd Dog" a bullet type instead of a brand name. So under the column "Bullet Style" the other bullets have things like FMJ, JHP, but instead of EFMJ under that column, Federal lists "Gaurd Dog".
 
Yeah--I don't understand why Federal doesn't offer a 124gr bullet either. I'm sure they would proclaim that their lighter high velocity round performs even better but there will always be many a folk that prefer a heavier bullet. It's a shame if you ask me (just glad I have plenty of their previously offered 124gr. EFMJ ammo on hand though it's approaching four years old now).

-Cheers
 
The cheap frangible ammo will generally act like FMJ unless it hits something like a steel plate. They are made to safely shoot steel targets at close ranges, but the projectiles are pretty sturdy to ensure they can handle the stresses of being chambered and fired. Not a great choice.

The expensive frangibles underpenetrate terribly. Not a great choice, and hard on the wallet.

If you can't find a deal on the old 50rd boxes of the heavier EFMJ loads, I guess a SP would be your only remaining non-awful choice, if you can find a variety that performs acceptably. I've seen very little testing to refer to, but there may be an ok SP choice out there somewhere...

Good luck.
 
Over-penetration (with all common handgun calibers) is so very blown out of proportion till the cows come home please help me God make it stop. Even if bullet travelled through a body and made it through the clothes on the other side of the body, the amount of energy and velocity lost would be significant. A far more important concern that everyone should have should be missing the target. As an LEO in an urban environment one thing that is always stressed to the officer is that they are accountable for EVERY round fired; that includes the ones that don't hit the intended target.
 
Just to be clear I am not advocating for people to use fmj as sd rounds of choice, some people (I assume the op) have no choice due to the states they live in. Fortunately NJ seems to be the only state that comes to mind where hp is not allowed or at least severely restricted.
 
I personally can't think of a reason you "can't" use HP ammo,
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Perhaps he lives in New Jersey.

I'm not sure if that's the only state that bans it or not,,,
But hey, it's the charge they finally got Tony Soprano with. ;)

And some older milsurp guns just don't feed HP ammo very well at all,,,
I had a Walther P-38 that would feed 9mm ball all day long,,,
But it choked on any kind of HP ammo,,,
Go figure.

Aarond
 
Pow-R-Ball is not hollow point.
Click to expand...

Yup. Also, it's pretty stout stuff. Figure-wise, I don't know how it stacks up to run-of-the-mill FMJ but, when I've shot it right after shooting the FMJ, the felt recoil and noise was quite a bit more. It feeds well, too. More accurately, I can't remember ever seeing any posts about it causing cycling problems.
 
I can't remember ever seeing any posts about it causing cycling problems.
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That was the driving force behind PowerBall ammo, to minimize feeding problems.

Hornady has gone a step beyond with Critical Defense, to minimize expansion problems. I don't know that the Critical Defense even addresses feeding issues, if there are any.
 
Dangit! I tempted Murphy,,,

I had to mention the P-38 I used to own,,,
I sold it one time to make a house payment,,,
I've regretted selling that fine handgun ever since.

So I had to go off campus for lunch today,,,
I stopped by the Evil Pawn Shop,,,
Just to say hello to Mr. Evil.

What did he have in his counter,,,
A very nice specimen with holster and spare mag.

Only $359.00

I shoulda kept my thoughts shut. :(

Aarond
 
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