What are some viable non-1911 style handguns for conversion to 10mm? I would think any strong, solid .40 pistol with a magazine long enough to hold the 10mm rounds would be a good candidate. Then by reaming the chamber and beefing up the recoil assembly you would be all set. Could the owners of some various .40 pistols who have 10mm ammo check the fit of the ammo in the mag for me? I am particularly interested in converting a USP compact or full size, but was told you had to use modified Para-ordanace magazines. Does anyone have the specifics of whats involved in that conversion?
Non-1911 10mm conversion
- Thread starter Carbon_15
- Start date
LOL WESHOOT..I dont plan on shooting your steroidal ammo in anything but my beefed up Glock..or a 610 if I can ever find one. My Glock has a KKM barrel that is fully supported and a 24 LB recoil spring w/ stainless rod. Think thats enough? Cant wait to see what those way-to-hot 180gr's do to milk jugs..and Wild Bores next year.
BTW, any plans for a 200 gr soft point? When I was reloading myself that was the load I wanted, but never could locate any bullets in that configuration.
BTW, any plans for a 200 gr soft point? When I was reloading myself that was the load I wanted, but never could locate any bullets in that configuration.
Carbon_15:
See this thread:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=95409
Guys talking about reaming to 10mm. The pressures and designs between the 10mm and the 40SW are different. If you'd like to shoot 10mm out of a 10mm mag gun, fine. But from 40SW to 10mm exposes you to some kaboom risk and shooter/gun battery.
Just eliminate all engineering safeties built into the barrel, slide, and system doing that.
Get a Glock 20 and be done with it. You can also SAFELY shoot 40SW and 357 sig out of that bad boy.
The 10mm crowd also likes the EAA Witness line too. All of the others have fallen off the map.
And the SW 610 is one hell of a 10mm revolver. Mine nails fly wings at 50 yards! Real tackdrivers.
See this thread:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=95409
Guys talking about reaming to 10mm. The pressures and designs between the 10mm and the 40SW are different. If you'd like to shoot 10mm out of a 10mm mag gun, fine. But from 40SW to 10mm exposes you to some kaboom risk and shooter/gun battery.
Just eliminate all engineering safeties built into the barrel, slide, and system doing that.
Get a Glock 20 and be done with it. You can also SAFELY shoot 40SW and 357 sig out of that bad boy.
The 10mm crowd also likes the EAA Witness line too. All of the others have fallen off the map.
And the SW 610 is one hell of a 10mm revolver. Mine nails fly wings at 50 yards! Real tackdrivers.
Um...the .357 sig is a HIGHER pressure cartridge than the 10mm.
if its safe and accepted to rechamber a .40 to .357, then why the heck not 10mm. Short answer, with a few recoil obsorbing mods, its not. The only reason you dont see 10mm factory conversion kits, is the same reason you dont see origonal 10mm chambered guns. There is a perceaved lack of market. I say perceaved, because all one has to do is type 10mm in the search portion of our newsgroup. I have a Glock 20..infact I have 2. Got a Witness Compact, and a Delta...I just want something else.
But back to the origonal question. What non-1911 style .40 pistol magazines are big enought to hold 10mm bullets.
BTW, MP-5. Cor-Bon makes a 180gr SP and a 200gr FMJ_FP...no 200gr SP
if its safe and accepted to rechamber a .40 to .357, then why the heck not 10mm. Short answer, with a few recoil obsorbing mods, its not. The only reason you dont see 10mm factory conversion kits, is the same reason you dont see origonal 10mm chambered guns. There is a perceaved lack of market. I say perceaved, because all one has to do is type 10mm in the search portion of our newsgroup. I have a Glock 20..infact I have 2. Got a Witness Compact, and a Delta...I just want something else.
But back to the origonal question. What non-1911 style .40 pistol magazines are big enought to hold 10mm bullets.
BTW, MP-5. Cor-Bon makes a 180gr SP and a 200gr FMJ_FP...no 200gr SP
Attachments
"The 10mm crowd also likes the EAA Witness line too. All the others have fallen off the map."
Duncan:
I don't know about "fallen off the map."
The local gun shop here just sold it's third 10mm Smith in a month, this one a 1086 in mint condition. They had a 1066 (in good condition), and a like-new 1076 that somebody had traded in on a Kimber. All gone. This is, by the way, the same shop that sold 2 blue DEs and a stainless 10mm DE Gold Cup back around X-mas.
Okay, who's buying up all these no-longer-produced 10mms? That's my question.
Also Duncan, not a flame, but on the 10mm Witness issue, check out the other thread running here on the EAA Witness where a poster, nvrquit, describes his on-going battle with EAA to get them to fix his 10mm Witness compact. Unbelievable - an absolute nightmare of a story, regardless of gun or caliber.
After reading it, if offered a new 10mm Witness or a used-but-decent-condition 10mm Smith, I'd take the Smith. I've had nothing but good luck with mine. The 1006 & 1066 I've also shot were very accurate and just as reliable. My opinion, but I think the Smith 10mms hold up pretty well, though admittedly they're not set-up to do barrel-swapping to shoot other calibers, as is the case with the Glock 20/29 with the drop-in aftermarket barrels.
Just an observation, not a flame.
Duncan:
I don't know about "fallen off the map."
The local gun shop here just sold it's third 10mm Smith in a month, this one a 1086 in mint condition. They had a 1066 (in good condition), and a like-new 1076 that somebody had traded in on a Kimber. All gone. This is, by the way, the same shop that sold 2 blue DEs and a stainless 10mm DE Gold Cup back around X-mas.
Okay, who's buying up all these no-longer-produced 10mms? That's my question.
Also Duncan, not a flame, but on the 10mm Witness issue, check out the other thread running here on the EAA Witness where a poster, nvrquit, describes his on-going battle with EAA to get them to fix his 10mm Witness compact. Unbelievable - an absolute nightmare of a story, regardless of gun or caliber.
After reading it, if offered a new 10mm Witness or a used-but-decent-condition 10mm Smith, I'd take the Smith. I've had nothing but good luck with mine. The 1006 & 1066 I've also shot were very accurate and just as reliable. My opinion, but I think the Smith 10mms hold up pretty well, though admittedly they're not set-up to do barrel-swapping to shoot other calibers, as is the case with the Glock 20/29 with the drop-in aftermarket barrels.
Just an observation, not a flame.
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I know what you mean by lack of "perceived" interest. I was at the Wannemacher (sp?) gun show in Tulsa several months ago and stopped by the Wilson booth to ask them if they had anything in 10mm. The guy at the booth told me that they used to carry a 10mm in their lineup but lack of sales prompted them to discontinue it. I know using high priced Wilson Combat products may be a poor analog to what is going on in the marketplace, but maybe the used pistols in 10mm sell better than the new ones (i.e. Glock20, 610, Witness) and that is why there are precious few handguns chambered for this wonderful round: sales of new pistols chambered in 10mm just are not strong enough.
cheers
cheers
Probably the easiest pistols to convert to 10mm are Glock 21 and 30 and Witness large frames in any caliber. With any of the above just swap the top end and you`re ready to go. As for Wilson,I think custom 1911 guys just want .45ACP as a rule. The 10mm is plenty popular,I see far more of it around here than .400 Corbon,.454 Casull,.38 Super or even .41 Mag. and they`re hanging in there. Marcus
agtman:
You're right. I did forget the Smith line of semi-autos and revolvers. Love my SW 610 revolver.
And this is what I told nvrquit:
Apparently after all of that hassle, EAA offered him a refund of sorts. Several people over at Shooter's GunTalk did have some problems with their Witnesses. Maybe a Smith 10mm next?
But . . .
I stand corrected - head bloodied but unbowed!
You're right. I did forget the Smith line of semi-autos and revolvers. Love my SW 610 revolver.
And this is what I told nvrquit:
Apparently after all of that hassle, EAA offered him a refund of sorts. Several people over at Shooter's GunTalk did have some problems with their Witnesses. Maybe a Smith 10mm next?
But . . .
I stand corrected - head bloodied but unbowed!
"The ONLY one to pass the [CHiP] durability test was the Glock 20. All the rest suffered broken frames."
Sorry, no.
First, the CHiP durability test consisted of sustained firing - 5000 rds - of 175gn Winchester STHP (@ btw 1250-1295fps).
Second, only a proto-type G-20 was available for testing, and Glock protested to CHiP that this proto-type had not yet completed Glock's own durability trials when CHiP set the deadline for entry of candidate 10mm pistols. Too bad, said CHiP. So, rather than not send one at all, Glock sent a not-so-extensively-tested proto-type. The results were predictable.
As John Taffin* reported it in 1991 (directly from the CHiP testing records):
Glock: "Firing was halted at approximately 3,800 rounds because of severe cracking and deterioration of the bolt face at the firing pin opening which caused repeated malfunctions. Additionally, upon final inspection of the weapon, cracks were found in the plastic frame rails adjacent to the magazine well at the rear of the barrel locking lug."
Actually, those of us who own a G-20 today are beneficiaries of this particular "failed" 10mm pistol.
Why? Because Glock took back their proto-type 10mm, even though badly mauled by the Win. STHPs, and had their engineers study closely what happened to those battered parts. They then incorporated design improvements (mostly thru strengthening certain areas) in the bolt, frame and slide and put it thru their own trials (again), and it successfully finished Glock's testing thru sustained firing of hot Norma-strength 10mm. (And it was from the G-20 that the .45 acp G-21 was derived).
The G-20 was literally built - or rebuilt - from the ground up to handle the full-power 10mm Auto, in part at least, from what was learned from the CHiP tests.
No doubt about it. Today's G-20 would've passed the CHiP durability test. But whether it's grip-circumference would have been an issue for smaller-built CHiP surfer girls & guys is a different question.
Third, here's a pop quiz: which of the submitted pistols actually passed CHiP's durability test?
The Smith 1006, of course.
Big. Heavy. All steel. American made. Best of all, it's pre-sellout.
Taffin notes:
"The 1006 was the only double action semi-automatic to make it through the CHiP tests ..., an amazing feat. It was rejected not on performance but for having excessive recoil."
Well, sustained-firing of 5000 rds of hot 175gn STHPs probably will turn surfer dudes & dudettes into snivelling wusses. So what else is new?
As to the 1006's specific performance, Taffin relates this from the testing:
"The Model 1006 fired 3,500 rounds with no malfunctions and then required cleaning due to debris buildup which caused 6 malfunctions. The pistol was cleaned and oiled, then fired to over 5000 rounds. The weapon suffered no parts breakage."
By the way, during testing CHiP used a "malfunction rate" standard of 1 in 100 or better as part of its evaluation.
Reported malfunction rates were:
Colt Double Eagle: 1:18;
G-20: 1:19;
S&W 1076: 1:500;
S&W 1006: 1:844.
Hope the above clears up any confusing internet "myths".
*Taffin article in the 1991 Annual, American Handgunner, Special 10mm Issue, pp 57-58.
Sorry, no.
First, the CHiP durability test consisted of sustained firing - 5000 rds - of 175gn Winchester STHP (@ btw 1250-1295fps).
Second, only a proto-type G-20 was available for testing, and Glock protested to CHiP that this proto-type had not yet completed Glock's own durability trials when CHiP set the deadline for entry of candidate 10mm pistols. Too bad, said CHiP. So, rather than not send one at all, Glock sent a not-so-extensively-tested proto-type. The results were predictable.
As John Taffin* reported it in 1991 (directly from the CHiP testing records):
Glock: "Firing was halted at approximately 3,800 rounds because of severe cracking and deterioration of the bolt face at the firing pin opening which caused repeated malfunctions. Additionally, upon final inspection of the weapon, cracks were found in the plastic frame rails adjacent to the magazine well at the rear of the barrel locking lug."
Actually, those of us who own a G-20 today are beneficiaries of this particular "failed" 10mm pistol.
Why? Because Glock took back their proto-type 10mm, even though badly mauled by the Win. STHPs, and had their engineers study closely what happened to those battered parts. They then incorporated design improvements (mostly thru strengthening certain areas) in the bolt, frame and slide and put it thru their own trials (again), and it successfully finished Glock's testing thru sustained firing of hot Norma-strength 10mm. (And it was from the G-20 that the .45 acp G-21 was derived).
The G-20 was literally built - or rebuilt - from the ground up to handle the full-power 10mm Auto, in part at least, from what was learned from the CHiP tests.
No doubt about it. Today's G-20 would've passed the CHiP durability test. But whether it's grip-circumference would have been an issue for smaller-built CHiP surfer girls & guys is a different question.
Third, here's a pop quiz: which of the submitted pistols actually passed CHiP's durability test?
The Smith 1006, of course.
Big. Heavy. All steel. American made. Best of all, it's pre-sellout.
Taffin notes:
"The 1006 was the only double action semi-automatic to make it through the CHiP tests ..., an amazing feat. It was rejected not on performance but for having excessive recoil."
Well, sustained-firing of 5000 rds of hot 175gn STHPs probably will turn surfer dudes & dudettes into snivelling wusses. So what else is new?
As to the 1006's specific performance, Taffin relates this from the testing:"The Model 1006 fired 3,500 rounds with no malfunctions and then required cleaning due to debris buildup which caused 6 malfunctions. The pistol was cleaned and oiled, then fired to over 5000 rounds. The weapon suffered no parts breakage."
By the way, during testing CHiP used a "malfunction rate" standard of 1 in 100 or better as part of its evaluation.
Reported malfunction rates were:
Colt Double Eagle: 1:18;
G-20: 1:19;
S&W 1076: 1:500;
S&W 1006: 1:844.
Hope the above clears up any confusing internet "myths".
*Taffin article in the 1991 Annual, American Handgunner, Special 10mm Issue, pp 57-58.