No more handguns in CA!?!?

A

ajw

New member
I was hoping somebody could give me some details regarding the new law in effect on 1/1/01 requiring that all handguns be tested before allowed for sale in CA. From what I understand, only about a dozen or so handguns made by Ruger have been approved. I have a couple questions on the details though that I hope you guys can answer :

1. Can used non-approved guns still be sold?
2. Are private party transfers from out of state exempt?
3. As in MA, could I hypothetically purchase 10 pistols tommorrow, put them on layaway and then register one per month?

Man, and I thought I escaped all this BS when I moved from MA.
Thanks in advance,
Andrew
 
Welcome to TFL ... and, I'll gently point out, if you had spent time on TFL before your move, you would probably have chosen a different state. ;) You're not considering New Jersey or New York as well, are you? ;)

To the point of your post, take a look at http://www.regagun.org/ . Perhaps some of your answers will be found there. And, I'm sure we'll have some CA members help you out.

Good luck. Regards from (relatively free) AZ
 
As I understand it a lab must determine that the gun is "safe" . This means it will not fire if dropped . Now the BS comes . If a company sells a gun it is considered safe . If it kills someone the manuf. and the lab are in trouble . Used guns are , I believe exempt from this so far .The real bogus bill is supposed to come back next year that requires ALL gun buyers to go to the local P.D. and show competency with a weapon . For a fee of course .
Gun laws in KA seem to be in vogue as of late . The law on assault weapons already had to be backed up with another law since the pistols that the Olympic team use were outlawed . They had to write a new law to fix the old one . I wonder if they realize that in their zeal to write new laws they are not even paying attention to what they are doing . They are having to go back and fix stuff . Good thing they are not surgeons .
The bozo that wrote it had to change it the first time since he has a CCW and HIS weapon was listed . Couldn't have that !!! The state can't take HIS gun , only YOUR'S !!!!!!!!

------------------
TOM
SASS AMERICAN LEGION NRA GOA
 
Well, I've seen all the press and read the information regarding SB23 and all the assault weapon regulations. However, there seems to be relatively little uproar over the fact that right now the only new guns that will be available for sale in CA next year will be Rugers.

My largest concern right now is how I will be able to purchase handguns in the future, assuming everything I'm looking for remains unapproved. In MA there were a couple ways...
1. Buy Used in MA
2. Buy pre-98 guns
3. Guns could be purchased before the ban and recieved afterwards (of course, they don't have the dumb one gun a month + 10 day waiting periods)

I've searched for as much information as I could regarding this matter but I still haven't been able to straighten out the details such as used sales and transfers after the ban. Any help would definitly be appreciated.

Oh yeah, as for the MA -> CA move, sadly work comes before play. Both states are so full of BS laws that I'm getting rather indifferent to it all. Of course, after reading all the legistlation in both the states, for the first time in my life I actually believe that our government really will be taking all our guns away.
 
Only a few people know of the new gun laws in CA. They are not publicized anywhere in the press. No one even knows about the one-handgun-per-month law.

If you walk into a gun store, there is no mention of SB15. No one knows anything. There are lots of questions...what about used guns? Do they fall under the law?

LEOs don't know either.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ajw:
1. Can used non-approved guns still be sold?
2. Are private party transfers from out of state exempt?
3. As in MA, could I hypothetically purchase 10 pistols tommorrow, put them on layaway and then register one per month?

Man, and I thought I escaped all this BS when I moved from MA.
Thanks in advance,
Andrew[/quote]

Andrew...

I will try to answer this as best as I can... You didn't win much by moving from MA to the PRK, if anything, you lost some... No AW's, no mags over 10 rounds... ;)

Anyway, to answer the questions as best as I can understand...

1) Yes, by Private Parties only, although some FFL's who record the transfer may not want to get within 10 feet of this. Liability concerns. A Private Party sale within the state is only valid if both parties are present together before the FFL, to sign the papers, otherwise, it is a FFL transfer, like an out of state transaction, and must follow the law, if I understand this correctly.

2) No, private party transfers are only within the state. Any firearm being transfered into the state by a private party, is suppose to go through an FFL to get here. Some FFL's here will accept it from the private party, some won't. An out of state could only be made with "approved" handguns.

3) Nope, not exactly... There is a loophole, but for most purchases, the answer would be no.

You could purchase as many as you like, but you can only DROS 1 every 30 days, so at best, you can DROS 3 pistols between now, and Jan 1st. If you are married, your wife could also do 3. If you have children over 21, or brothers, or sisters, well, you get the idea... Any transfer within the family is alright, no big deal, and can be done after the 1st.

There is a loophole that is the best kept secret, a Private Party transfer, where you and the seller are present together, DOES NOT count on the 30 day limit, but the 10 day wait is still applicable.

All the good stuff is here...
http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/infobuls/

In particular - http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/infobuls/9907.pdf

Print this out, and take it with you if there is any question. Many FFL's aren't familiar with half this stuff.

The complete text of SB15 is here - http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/bill/sen/sb_0001-0050/sb_15_bill_19990830_chaptered.html

Enjoy!
 
HMMMMMM, I wonder how Rugers got approved?????? Seems like a good way to later sue the state for approving a faulty gun. Wonder if anyone is willing to go that route and how soon? I presume that LEO's are exempt from this BS. Like I said before, time to get a few hammers and meet at the fault line for a party.

------------------
"Liberty is never unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it always vanishes."
-R.A. Heinlein
 
Ruger submitted...

There was a good thread on 1911 Forum recently...
http://www.1911forum.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001169.html


I have copied some pertinent info here related to Ruger.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
The test requirements themselves are not all that bad. The problem is the cost incurred by the manufacturer / importer to have a gun tested. Each different caliber and barrel length of a pistol must be tested., and as you can see from the original post, the test requires three samples of the firearm plus 1800 rounds of factory fresh ammo. The guns are basically worthless after testing, plus one sample gets sent to CA DOJ if the test is passed. In addition, each model listed by CA DOJ costs the manufacturer / importer $200.00 per calendar year. There are currently five test labs certified by CA DOJ to perform the tests - they are charging anywhere between $800.00 and $1800.00 per test. As a exercise, let's see what it would cost Ruger to continue selling all variations of their SP101 revolver:


Test Fee: $11,000 (11 models x $1,000 per model)
DOJ Listing Fee: $2,200 (11 models x $200 per model)
Ammo: $2,500 (19,800 rounds!)
Tested Guns: $6,600 (11 models x 3 x $200.00)
=====

Total: $22,300

Remember, that's JUST for the model SP101 - care to guess how much it will cost Ruger to continue selling EVERYTHING they make next year? And, how many of the smaller gun manufacturers (Kahr, Kel-Tec, Taurus, Wilson Combat, etc) will want to pay these kinds of 'fees' to continue to sell in CA? My guess is not too many. This is, for all intents and purposes, the death of the handgun market in CA.
[/quote]
 
http://www.modbee.com/metro/story/0,1113,206027,00.html

Gun shops fret
about inventory

By STEVE ELLIOTT
BEE STAFF WRITER
(Published: Sunday, October 22, 2000)

Gary Boucher is a very worried
businessman.

Boucher, owner of Gun Country in
Modesto, is afraid that in a little more
than two months, he may not have a
product to sell.

On Jan. 1, all handguns sold in the
state must have been certified as safe
and appear on a state list for a dealer
to sell them. Right now, out of the 500
or so makes and models of pistols
made, 15 are on the list, all Rugers.

"I've never been more concerned with
not surviving," Boucher said. "I opened
my first gun shop 21 years ago, and it
may be time to get out."

What worries Boucher and other gun
sellers is that they have no control of
their inventory. If a gun maker submits
a gun to a state-certified lab for testing
and the weapon is found safe and
added to the list, dealers can sell it. If it
isn't, it's off the shelves.

The new rules don't apply to rifles
and shotguns. They also don't apply to
sales between individuals, so only
licensed dealers are affected.

And with the deadline about two
months away, the dealers are starting
to sweat.

The manufacturers, however, aren't
about to let the lucrative California
market get away, even if they do have
to pay $200 per gun and submit three
samples for testing to get a model
certified.

"We're in the process of having guns
tested," said Ken Jorgensen, director
of marketing and communication for
Smith & Wesson. "(California) is a
major part of the market. Unless you
had a product you didn't think would
pass, you have to be there."

The safety tests include a 600-shot
firing test and six drops onto a
concrete pad from a height of a little
more than 3 feet.

Boucher is also worried about the
used-gun market, which he said makes
up more than half of his business. He's
not even sure what the rules will be
concerning used guns, but thinks that if
a new model is on the approved list he
can sell a used version of it, as long as
it's the same model.

"I think that anything manufactured
after Jan. 1, 2001 should be subject to
the new criteria," he said. "But it's
unfair to apply it to guns made 20 years
ago or 50 years ago."

The state Department of Justice is
holding a meeting to discuss the new
requirements Monday in Sacramento.
Boucher said he plans to speak at the
meeting, but doesn't think it'll do any
good.

"I think the new law has nothing to do
with handgun safety and everything to
do with reducing the numbers being
sold," he said. "I don't foresee a future
here. I don't see things very rosy, and
there's nothing I can do."

The full text of the new rules and
the list of approved firearms is on
the Department of Justice Web
site at caag.state.ca.us/firearms.

Bee staff writer Steve Elliott can
be reached at 984-5150 or
selliott@modbee.com.
 
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