Nine millimeter ammo on the way out.

[edfrompa]

Is it true the government is fazing out the 9mm cartridge??? They have develop a new round, that is what I have heard.

 

[jeager106]

HUH? You mean a new round for military use in the U.S. military?
As for the 9 X 19 round. It will be here in use looooong after we are all gone.

 

[g.willikers]

Not as long as we're part of NATO.

 

[Slamfire]

This may be the origin of all the speculation.:

Army wants a harder hitting pistol.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/07/03/army-wants-a-harder-hitting-pistol.html

The Request for Information is on this Government Web site:

https://www.fbo.gov/?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=9116f280604416544445deab10bcef32&tab=core&_cview=0

[SIZE="2"]OVERVIEW 
The Project Manager Soldier Weapons (PM SW) will be hosting a second Modular Handgun System (MHS) Industry Day on 29 July 2014 at The Cannon Gate Catering and Conference Center, Bldg #121, 121 Buffington Road, Picatinny Arsenal, New Jersey. The purpose of this Industry Day is to: expand on information gained from Industry Day #1, to further exchange information with the industry regarding the handgun and ammunition draft purchase descriptions, and to better refine the acquisition strategy. This event is for U.S. Government planning purposes only and constitutes a request for exchange of information pursuant to FAR 15.201. 

This announcement should not be construed as a Request for Proposal (RFP) or a commitment by the U.S. Government. The U.S. Government does not intend to award a contract on the basis of this Industry Day. THIS IS NOT A SOLICITATION AND DOES NOT OBLIGATE THE U.S. GOVERNMENT TO ISSUE A SOLICITATION. The U.S. Government will NOT ACCEPT proposals at this time. NOTE: The U.S. Government will not be responsible for any expenses incurred by a vendor's decision to participate in this MHS Industry Day. All travel and other associated costs are to be assumed by the interested vendor. 

INDUSTRY DAY FORMAT 
The MHS Industry Day will start at 8:30 am EDT on 15 July 2014, with check-in beginning at 7:00 am EDT at visitor control as well as the Cannon Gate Catering and Conference Center. Industry Day will consist of a general session information briefing followed by an open forum question and answer session. 

The Government intends to cover the following topics during the general session: 

Program Overview 
Handgun Requirements 
Ammunition Requirements 
Enablers /Accessories 
Logistics 
Programmatic Environment, Safety and Occupational Health Evaluation (PESHE) 

The Government does not intend to discuss the following topics with Industry during this Industry Day include: 

Test Procedures and Test Schedule 
Internal Acquisition Process/Funding 

Immediately following the general session, vendors will have the opportunity to submit written questions, which will be answered during the open forum question and answer session. The questions, and answers to all of the questions will be posted on Fedbizopps at a later date. Vendors will not be identified in the public announcement. All vendor information will be treated confidentially and discreetly. No vendor promotional items or giveaways will be allowed from industry. No cameras, tape recorders or other reproduction devices will be allowed. 

REGISTRATION INSTRUCTIONS: 
Due to limited space and time, ONLY FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION MANUFACTURERS WILL BE PERMITTED TO ATTEND. No more than four (4) representatives may attend from each vendor. This restriction will be strictly enforced. All registrants must provide a Government issued photo identification at check-in. INTERESTED PARTICIPANTS MUST REGISTER NO LATER THAN JULY 8, 2014. NOTE: FOREIGN VISITORS PLEASE BE COGNIZANT OF THE ADDITIONAL TIME REQUIREMENTS FOR REGISTRATION. 

The draft purchase descriptions for the handgun and ammunition are marked Distribution Statement D. These purchase descriptions will be provided separately upon request and receipt of a completed Non-Disclosure Agreement, which is attached to this Industry Day announcement, and proof of compliance with any other required ITARS regulation. Please send your request and completed Non-Disclosure Agreement to the point of contact listed below. 

All visitors must be registered in the Picatinny Arsenal Security System prior to Industry Day. 

To register you MUST contact Mr. Vincent Turco, Contract Specialist, via email at, vincent.f.turco.civ@mail.mil and Dan Potempa at daniel.l.potempa2.civ@mail.mil. Interested vendors should include the following details in the registration email: company name; CAGE code; names of each (of the up to four (4)) representatives who will attend the Industry Day; and the nationality of each attendee. Each attendee must also provide a signed Non-Disclosure Agreement. 

HARDWARE OF ANY KIND WILL NOT BE PERMITTED AT THIS EVENT. 

NOTE: Foreign individuals will need to be approved and comply with all instructions determined by the Army Contracting Command Foreign Disclosure Officer. Information on foreign individuals will need to be received no later than 30 days prior to attending. 

Any request for a substitution of personnel must be received no later than 48 hours in advance of the scheduled Industry Day and is subject to approval by the U.S. Government. [/SIZE]

Understand the US Army is "seeking" but has not committed to anything. By putting a RFI out in the public domain they are soliciting comments, ideas from Industry. The Army is extremely conservative about their weapons, they want something better, but only a little different, and the Army tends to reject revolutionary change. Unless Industry can show something that is 200% better, and cheaper, then don't expect the new ideas to over come the institutional inertia.

 

[Joe_Pike]

Army wants a harder hitting pistol.*

They dumped a harder hitting pistol in favor of higher capacity. I guess they may be changing their mind.

 

[jmr40]

The Army wanted to dump the 1911 and 45 for 9mm in 1945. It took them 40 years to get that done. They have been looking for a replacement for the M-9 for the last 30 years. I don't expect anything anytime soon. The military didn't keep the 1911 for so long, or the M-9 for that matter because they liked either gun. They did simply because handguns are so low on the list of priorities that no one really cares which handgun they have.

When and if they do make a change I'd expect something radically different from anything out there right now. Including the cartridge. Somebody will be thinking outside the box. Of current cartridges the 2 most likely are the 5.7X28 or 10mm in my opinion.

I've never seen anything proving 45 is a bit more effective than 9mm, but if the soldiers don't have any faith in it, then replace it. The 45's biggest disadvantage is very poor barrier penetration. 9mm beats it handily and crude body armor is starting to show up on more of our enemies. Something that will defeat light body armor is needed, and 45 is not the answer. 10mm and 5.7 will do it. Or some other yet to be developed cartridge.

 

[Tom Servo]

Something that will defeat light body armor is needed, and 45 is not the answer. 10mm and 5.7 will do it.

The problem is that all of our NATO allies use 9x19. Compatibility is a huge consideration.

We seem to have four separate threads running on this subject at the moment. I'm going to close this one and redirect discussion to the original one.