NICS ..... has anyone bought a gun this week?

Doc2be

Inactive
I tried to get my permit to purchase from the local sheriff today and they said the NICS computers have been down since Sunday. I went to a local gunstore and everyone was being delayed.

Is this some kind of sick experiment by Clinton and the anti-gunners? Anyone know whats going on?
 
I haven't tried to buy one this week (between paydays), but I did hear something over at Capitol Hill Blue. Supposedly the puters were down all day Sunday for "routine maintenance."

Horsepuckey. I fix puters for a living, and I know damned well it doesn't take all day to do routine maintenance. More likely (and here's the paranoia) they're testing the waters.
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Update: I just searched fbi.gov for "nics, system, status" and got "The search system is unavailable (possibly an internal error)."

So let's us see... we can't buy guns without going through the system. The system is down. Therefore, we can't buy guns.

If they don't fix this within 48 hours, I'd say we have a good case for a restraint-of-trade suit.
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You can't get something for nothing,
You can't have freedom for free.
--Neil Peart



[This message has been edited by Coinneach (edited July 14, 1999).]
 
Just sent the following to a_nics@leo.gov:

I've been hearing increasing grumbling about NICS having been down this past Sunday, supposedly for "routine maintenance."

I haven't tried to buy a gun this week, so I haven't any first-hand experience, but others are now saying the system has been down *since* Sunday.

What's the deal, guys? I'm a systems administrator, and I know that "routine maintenance" doesn't take an entire day on ANY platform, much less 4 days.
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They actually responded to my previous inquiries, so perhaps they'll have an answer. Whether it's truthful or not is another matter.

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You can't get something for nothing,
You can't have freedom for free.
--Neil Peart
 
A friend of mine who's a cop had to wait to pick up his new Sig. He mistakenly thought his badge would let him by-pass all the red-tape. Not so. Apperently being a cop doesn't mean squat as far as NICS is concerned. He also found out that he's been carrying illegally here in WA. He let his CCW expire when he was commissioned, because he thought he could carry off-duty on his badge alone. Not so. I guess he'll have to arrest himself . . . . or he could deputize me, and I'll do it. :)
 
repost:
#: 427458 S14/GUN Politic/Legal [PERSONNE]
14-Jul-99 10:30:13
Sb: FBI acts on its own
Fm: Sysop Bill Clede/CT 76702,2011
To: All

From: Alan Korwin <alan@bloomfieldpress.com>

ACTING ON ITS OWN, FBI CLOSES GUN SHOWS NATIONWIDE

Congressional Oversight Apparently No Longer An Issue
by Alan Korwin

For Publication, 454 Words, Monday July 12, 1999
One-time North American Serial Rights, Copyright 1999 Alan Korwin
Not-for-profit circulation approved.

In what seemed like an arbitrary and capricious attack on U.S. commerce,
the FBI, without warning, closed gun shows and the firearms business in
general on Sunday, by turning off its national instant background check
system (NICS) for the day.

Touted as a crime-fighting tool by anti-gun-rights supporters, the NICS
background check more closely resembled socialist control of a segment
of the economy, at least for the day. Dealers at the sprawling
Crossroads gun show in Phoenix reported being severely hurt by the FBI's
move, which the Bureau characterized as routine maintenance.

Record-breaking crowds at the show, fearing more severe repression of
gun-buying rights threatened by the Clinton administration, found that
their only option for obtaining firearms was through private
transactions, since dealers were totally shut down. The president,
along with many members of Congress, are seeking total control over
these private sales as well, calling such legitimate and legal activity
"a loophole."

It's important to note that Brady Part 2, which authorizes NICS, only
requires its use if it is up and running (18 USC 922 (t)(5)). But
dealers, terrified of reprisals by BATF, are now afraid to sell
merchandise to American citizens without a prior federal blessing. This
gives the government lock-step control over a portion of the American
economy and exercise of civil rights that were previously untouchable
under constitutional guarantees, which now seem dead.

In other news, a detailed analysis of the 1999 Omnibus Funding bill has
been completed for the upcoming third edition of "Gun Laws of America,"
the unabridged guide to federal gun law. It reveals that, although
Congress says in a side note it provided $42 million in funding for the
NICS system, NO ALLOCATION TO RUN NICS APPEARS IN THE FUNDING BILL. =

This means that, in addition to operating against explicit written law
(18 USC 926(a)(3); 18 USC 922(t)(2); P.L. 103-159 Sec. 103(i)) by
recording the names of all innocent retail gun buyers nationwide, the
authorities are running NICS without any direct OK from Congress.
Experts don't expect Clinton's administration to take action against the
apparently flagrant abuse of power. The government is simply running
regardless of its authority to do so.

Congress is reconvening this week following its Independence Day
recess. Consideration of the juvenile justice bill, which is packed
with gun-control laws that would only affect adults, is on the agenda of
many legislators. Included is a provision that would outlaw legal
private transfers of firearms between honest adult citizens, without
prior approval by the FBI. Considering the Bureau's recent actions,
such a law might be ill-advised. Permission to forward this report to
your representatives is granted.
- -------------------------------------------------------

ALAN KORWIN is the author of the unabridged guide, "Gun Laws of
America--Every Federal Gun Law on the Books, with Plain English
Summaries," and state gun-law guides for AZ, CA, FL, TX and VA.

This paper is part of an ongoing series, click Position Papers
on our home page, or contact us for copies.

Call, mail, fax or click to reach us:
Alan Korwin
BLOOMFIELD PRESS
12629 N. Tatum #440
Phoenix, AZ 85032
602-996-4020 Phone
602-494-0679 Fax
1-800-707-4020 Book orders http://www.gunlaws.com
 
Re 15 July post by dZ, concerning the "evil intent" of FBI re their "maintenance shut-down" of NICS system, the following might be of interest to readers/viewers. It is a direct quote of a paragraph from a letter I received from James E. Kessler, Jr., Section Chief, NICS Program Office, Criminal Justice Information Services Division at Clarksberg, W. VA, in response to comment I had made re FBI keeping of NICS records, in violation of the provisions of The Brady Law.
"The law has never been interpreted by the FBI to mean that all relevant information is purged from the system immediately after the processing is complete. The system that was designed and devbeloped reflects this interpretation of the law. Modification of the NICS to utilize immediate purging of information would require a major system redesign". I had earlier posted this quote, with additional comment.

Given the "this is our thing" attitude, is anyone really surprised at the sudden "need" for a "maintenance shut-down" of this NICS system??

By the way, while I have not purchased any firearms this year, the "Instacheck" on a firearms purchase, run by my state of residence, late last year took 5 WEEKS to complete.
 
I thought that, in our system of checks and balances, that it was the job of the courts to "interpret" laws. So does every federal agency now have interpretational powers? That thought absolutely scares the poop outta me. Every little thing we do would be illegal in the eyes of one or several government agencies, yet at the same time, be mandated by other ones.
 
Still no permit. My state reguires a permit to purchase for handguns by the sheriff which uses the NICS computer. They say it is still unavailable to them. It is supposed to be INSTANT.

Then to top it off I have to go through the FBI check (using the came computer) when I pick up the gun, even though I hand the dealer an notarized copy of my permit. It's stupid. Just stupid.
 
Christopher...
On paper, yeah...
But, under the Clinton admin, numerous agencies (EPA,FDA,Justice, Commerce, FCC, etc) have taken it upon themselves to make law. And our Republican Congress has intentionally shirked their duty and allowed it to continue....according to the Constitution, only Congress can enact laws.
But, as we all know, the Constitution is outmoded for the 20th century and these elected officials attain enlightened intelligence in the etheral environs of Washington DC

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
subject: posts from doc2be, christopher and dc administrator

Gentlemen:

1. Not every Republican is pro-gun.
2. Not every Democrat is anti-gun.
3. Like congresses past, the present congress has shirked it's constitutional "oversight responsibility", to say nothing of ignoring "the power of the purse".
4. As to government agencies "making law", from what I recall of the Gun Control Act of 1968, it reads as follows "... and The Secretary (as in Secretary of Treasury) or His delegate shall promulgate regulations ...", which essentially meant that the Congress had willingly given the bureaucrats, and assorted political appointees, power to "make it up, as they go along". It would not really surprise me if it turned out that a great many other pieces of legislation contained similar hookers, in any event, GCA'68 does.
5. If The Congress is "obsolete", this is because it has so made itself, for reasons yet to be determined, though pehraps avoiding responsibility does loom large, forgive me if it turns out that I'm overly harsh with respect to our "elected things".
 
No problem here locally with "instant" purchase. And I'm PROUD to be on their list as a "gunowner"...only wish it could have been a RPG.
 
Last week, I put a Remington 1100 on layaway. Went to pick it up Saturday morning.

Dealer said I probably wouldn't be taking it home; nearly every transaction was delayed by a few hours.

I got through with no problem; took about 2 minutes.

According to the dealer, the problem on Sunday was that the geniuses (genii?) had installed a new version of the software, which killed the whole system. They're still stomping bugs.

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Ignorance is takin' over,
We gotta take the power back.
--Rage Against The Machine
 
I picked up a gun, at a gun show, last week, on Sunday July 11th. The instant check was done verbally and took about 2 minutes.
TN uses an In-state system, not the Federal one. The downside is that nothing stops TN from keeping a record of every transaction, including ser# and type of gun. The obvious upside is that it works.

[This message has been edited by Rob (edited July 19, 1999).]
 
All I can say to this topic is: Why should I? The Federales violated the Provisions of their previous 1968 Gun Act which stated there would be no gun registration. NICS is registration.
 
You know, this is getting so close to a presumption of guilt, I'm beginning to be surprised that there hasn't yet been a civil suit. There is a strong precedent here; when you get stopped by an officer, he can ask you question if he has reasonable suspicion, but he can't do more than that without Probable Cause.

I'm a lawful citizen, going about a legal gun purchase. If the government can't use their "instant" system to imediately check on me, then they should stand out the way, and let me purchase my gun. If they want to catch crooks with this thing, let 'em make it a bit more dependable. "Officer, if you have nothing to hold me on, then let me go home," would be the equivalent.

[rant]
The waiting period was supposedly until the Instant Check came into being. Thus, ALL waiting must stop. If the Instant Check comes up with something later, they can do a little leg work and come find me. But I'm not a criminal, and would the Treasury Department, D.O.J., and Slick Willy stand the heck down!?!
[/rant]

L.P.

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Do SOMETHING!
 
What are the odds the system will go down "for maintenance" a day or so before Jan. 1?
From what I understand, most gun dealers will not make a transactin without a background check (if the system is down -- perfectly legal) because of fear of the BATF. If so, those last-minte shoppers will be screwed. If you stop and think about it, we ALL screwed if the govt decides to shut
the system down for ANY reason -- legalities be damned.
 
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