NICS Disqualifiers

S

Sam815

New member
Effective May 2, 2006 both unlicensed as well as licensed permit holders in New York are required to undergo a NICS Background check prior to purchasing any type of firearm whether handgun or long arm. There is however an exemption, which states permit holder will be exempt from background check if permit was issued within last five years and the issuing authority conducted NICS check prior to issuance of permit. According to information obtained from the FBI website which deals directly with NICS related issues one of the Federal Prohibitors states "A person whose separation from the U.S. Armed Forces resulted from a Dishonorable Discharge is prohibited from obtaining firearm. It goes on to state that this catagory only includes separations resulting from dishonorable discharge or dismissals (e.g., a bad conduct discharge is not included).

If I received a discharge under "Other Than Honorable" does this prevent me from obtaining a firearm since this is a administrative discharge as opposed to a punitive discharge (Bad Conduct or Dishonorable Discharge). I have had a valid NYC Permit for almost 25 years and no criminal record.
 
I am sure that that you may purchase. On the form 4473 "Dishonorable" is in bold. A dishonorable discharge in many ways has the same effect as a felony conviction. Additionally, an "other than honorable" discharge is, as you said, administrative. Generally speaking your rights can not be taken away administratively.
 
In my 34 years of service in the US Armed Forces, I have NEVER been obligated to grant a Discharge lower than "Under Honorable Conditions" (A General Discharge). You want a gun? For what?


"Under Other Than Honorable Conditions. OTH Discharges are warranted when the reason for separation is based upon a pattern of behavior that constitutes a significant departure from the conduct expected of members of the Military Services, or when the reason for separation is based upon one or more acts or omissions that constitute a significant departure from the conduct expected of members of the Military Services. Examples of factors that may be considered include the use of force or violence to produce serious bodily injury or death, abuse of a special position of trust, disregard by a superior of customary superior-subordinate relationships, acts or omissions that endanger the security of the United States or the health and welfare of other members of the Military Services, and deliberate acts or omissions that seriously endanger the health and safety of other persons.

Persons awarded an OTH characterization of service: are not entitled to retain their uniforms or wear them home (although they may be furnished civilian clothing at a cost of not more than $50); must accept transportation in kind to their homes; are subject to recoupment of any reenlistment bonus they may have received; are not eligible for notice of discharge to employers (which may affect unemployment benefits); and, do not receive mileage fees from the place of discharge to their home of record."

You took advantage of us, the American People, and now you come crying to us for some special "right", move to some third world country you traitor.
 
I respect your opinion dispite the fact that it appears somewhat harsh and uncalled for but this is a forum and you are entitled to express your views. I take it that you are or were a career man and perhaps it was a biased opinion. If you look at the posting, you will see that I was just trying to get an interrpretation of the question Dishonorable as it appears on Form 4473. The question is somewhat ambiguous so as to mean anything less than Dishonorable should not prevent you from obtaining a firearm. I was in the U.S. Army Reserves over 25 years ago and Graduated with Honors. It was after being assigned to a reserve unit that I encounted personal hardship and subsequently assigned to IRR status. After completion of my six years I received what is known as "OTH" and have nothing to be ashamed about. I have lived a productive adult life and have nothing but the upmost respect for what our soldiers are doing and would have gladly put my life in danger if called upon. You will also note that I have had a license for most of my adult life and never had any problems, so for you to respond in that fashion without even knowing my circumstances indicates your opinion was biased.The manner in which you responded makes me appear as some lowlife looking for some freebie. I have never asked for anything from the Army including benefits so I don't understand your rationale. Thank you and god bless.
 
"Less Than Honorable" is, I think correctly called "Other Than Honorable" includes several reasons other than what would earn a member a "Dishonorable" discharge.

Just a quick internet search found this:
Military discharge in the United States

The Department of Defense technically refers to a military discharge as separation. There are two basic types of separation, administrative separations and punitive separations. Punitive separations occur as part of punishment for a crime, while all other types of discharges are considered administrative.

Reasons For Discharge

Under almost all conditions, whenever and however a member of the armed forces leaves the military, he or she receives a discharge. Some of the reasons for receiving a discharge are as follows:

· Expiration of enlistment

· Disability, dependency, or hardship

· Fulfillment of service obligation

· Convenience of the government

· Unsuitability

If discharged for any of the above reasons, the servicemember will receive an honorable or a general discharge.

Types of discharge

Honorable

To receive an honorable discharge, a servicemember must have received a rating from good to excellent for his or her service. Servicemembers who meet or exceed the required standards of duty performance and personal conduct, and who complete their tours of duty, receive honorable discharges. Some servicemembers who ordinarily would only qualify for other discharges (for example, as a result of past misconduct) may receive honorable discharges under two circumstances: separation because of a disability incurred in the line of duty, and the receipt of awards for gallantry in action, heroism, or other meritorious service.

General (Under Honorable Conditions)

General discharges are given to servicemembers whose performance is satisfactory but not up to the standards of a honorable discharge. This is usually given to those who must leave the service for nonmedical reasons before the end of their tour of duty, or for servicemembers who have had frequent nonjudicial punishments but not serious infractions. If there are infractions of discipline, the seriousness and frequency are evaluated, with the benefit of the doubt going to a honorable discharge. The reasons for a general discharge must be disclosed to the servicemember.

Servicemembers are required to sign documents acknowledging that "substantial prejudice in civilian life" may be encountered under a general discharge under honorable conditions. [1] Despite this, some personnel think because a general discharge is given under honorable conditions, it is as good as the honorable discharge itself. However, general discharge under honorable conditions precludes participation in the GI Bill, service on veteran's commissions, and other programs where honorable discharge is required.

Other than honorable discharge (OTH)

These are administrative separations given to those who are separated for misconduct, fraudulent entry, homosexual conduct, or in lieu of trial by court-martial. It is given to servicemembers who have a pattern of behavior that constitutes a significant departure from military norms, or serious acts or omissions that depart from military norms. Although there is no court martial, a discharged servicemember is allowed the right to appeal to an administrative discharge board. The majority of veterans' benefits are not available to individuals with other than honorable discharges.

Bad Conduct (BCD)

Bad conduct discharges are given to servicemembers after a general or special court-martial. Vested benefits from a prior period of honorable service are not forfeited by receipt of a bad conduct discharge, but virtually all other benefits are lost.

Dishonorable

Dishonorable discharges are given to servicemembers for dishonorable conduct. They are given only by a general court-martial for serious offenses calling for dishonorable separation as part of the punishment. All benefits earned during any time of service can be lost.

Entry level separation (ELS)

Entry level separation, or uncharacterized discharge, is given to individuals in their first 180 days of military service. It does not attempt to characterize their service as good or bad; however, punitive and/or administrative discharges may be given to servicemembers within their first 180 days for serious misconduct.

Commissioned officers

Commissioned officers cannot be reduced in rank by a court-martial, nor can they be given a bad conduct discharge or a dishonorable discharge. If an officer is convicted by a General Court-Martial of an offense and qualifies for a punitive discharge, then the General Court-Martial can sentence the officer to a "dismissal." This is considered to be the same as a dishonorable discharge. The President of the United States can order that a commissioned officer be dismissed from the service, as all commissioned officers "serve at the pleasure of the President." However an officer who is dismissed by order of the President can demand a trial by court-martial to clear his or her name. If a court-martial is not convened, or if the officer is acquitted, then the Service Secretary of the branch that the officer is assigned to must then issue an administrative discharge in lieu of a dismissal.

Appeal procedures ...
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Of course the rules for Commissioned Officers are different. They are gentlemen, you know. They probably have larger brains, higher morals, more of a sense of responsibility and a deeper sense of patriotism. That would explain it. Yah.
 
Of course the rules for Commissioned Officers are different. They are gentlemen, you know. They probably have larger brains, higher morals, more of a sense of responsibility and a deeper sense of patriotism. That would explain it. Yah.
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In my many years of service I knew many, many enlisted men that were true gentlemen and, unlike many Officers, it didn't take an act of Congress declaring them as such to make them behave that way.

Edit: I just read Sam815's reply to Wild Horse. That reply was certainly in the "true gentleman" category.;)
 
You took advantage of us, the American People, and now you come crying to us for some special "right", move to some third world country you traitor.
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Kinda harsh I think. At least he enlisted and gave it a try. He has to live with the consequences of his actions. I dont think that qualifies as being a traitor.
 
Thanks guys,

It was nice to see that dispite the several hundred viewings of this posting, a few of you took the time to respond. As you all know, this forum is a great way to express our ideas and learn about issues surrounding firearm ownership. Occasionally members are hesitant to express their views because we fear what others may think. If we as responsible firearms owners and enthusiast let ourselves be prevented from expressing our views then it won't be long before we let those in control take our ownership rights away.

P.S.
Just became a NRA Life Member.
 
You took advantage of us, the American People, and now you come crying to us for some special "right", move to some third world country you traitor.
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Regardless of your opinions on the original poster's service record, you are completely out of line insulting a fellow forum member.

Did you not read the Forum Rules when you signed up, or did you make a deliberate choice to disrespect the wishes of your host here?
 
"You took advantage of us, the American People, and now you come crying to us for some special "right", move to some third world country you traitor."

That's a horrible thing to say. How is he a traitor for serving his country?

"You want a gun? For what?"

Why does it matter what his use for the gun is? Do you have guns? Why do you have them?

Sam, if you don't understand any meanings of words or the wording of a question, look on the back of the 4473, it has question explanations and defenitions there.

I hope you get your gun, and thanks for serving!
 
Wild Horse said:
You want a gun? For what?
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And here we see the underpinnings of gun control from one of "our own."

Imagine, a military veteran who has held a NYC gun permit for 25 years and has no criminal record is being asked why he wants a gun. :barf:
 
Wild Horse,

I had a friend get an OTH for fraudulent entry becasue he lied about having been diagnosed with ADD when he was 10. (if you are in the 18-30 age bracket you know that they slapped that label on any kid that couldn't sit still in class for an hour and poured Ritalin down their throat)

He wanted to serve his country badly so he lied to get in. Does he betray his country for getting a OTH?
 
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