NICS Denial

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velle73

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I hope I am putting this in the right cat agony. I'm new to the whole forum thing. I have a crazy situation and am wondering if anyone here can lend any advice on how I may get some answers. My husband got his permit in NY in November last year. He purchased a pistol the next week. Had no issue with the NICS check. A month later we were both gun shopping and both purchased a pistol. His NICS check came back denied. They have since tried three more times and it is denied every time. He hasn't has so much as a parking ticket. We have filed an appeal but we have heard they they have halted the appeals due to the extreme backlog they have. I have contacted a 2A lawyer and he says he can not do anything for us. What other recourse do we have? He wants to get this cleared up and it obviousily makes no sense. I think it's awful that anyone should have to wait for an undetermined amount of time to clear up their record or their name.
 
I don't think there's much you can do other than wait it out. If it's true that our husband 'hasn't had so much as a parking ticket', the only thing I can think of is he shares a name with someone who has a criminal record. Many times this can be corrected by supplying his SS number with the ATF 4473 form even though it's not required. If he did that then there's not much you can do other than wait. When it does get cleared up, I think there's a confirmation number or personal ID number for his case which he should use in the future if it happens again.
 
welcome to the forum Velle73.

If everything is as you say, then I guess that we should be a bit more thankful that the powers that be don't roll a patrol car to investigate every denied check....
 
He has definitely not had anything. This is a genuinely good person we are talking about. He did supply his SSN on all the NICS checks, even the one when he purchased his first gun. That's what makes no sense. In 30 days something changed that much that he can not purchase another. I just can't understand how that can be. Of course, I feel that way about a lot of things out government does.
 
Velle73, your husband's situation is not terribly common, but it happens often enough that he's definitely not alone. The issue could be as simple as misidentification or as complicated as identify theft, and there's no way to know without going through the appeal process.

At the shop where I work, you can tell that most people who get denied know why it happened, but some people are genuinely surprised and I believe them when they tell me they have no idea why. Heck, I once saw a guy get approved for a NICS check in the morning and then denied for another one in the afternoon. That was a fun one.

Overall, the NICS system works pretty well for what it is, but not always. And in situations like this it sometimes can be difficult to sort it all out. That's why I strongly encourage you to find a lawyer who is willing to help.
 
Am I to understand that if the NICS denies you they don't have to tell you why or show you what the denial reason is? That's ridiculous.

Even an institution providing you a loan has to tell you why the loan was denied and it gives you a free pass to get your credit report at no charge.

Without some kind of transparency or accountability, a system that is not required to explain itself seems ripe for abuse.

Could the OP's problem be a function of the sales guy not wanting to sell to them for some reason? Perhaps a different dealer? Am I off here?
 
I can't see a situation where a store would either not make the check and then tell the prospective buyer he was denied, or would make the check and then lie to the buyer about his status. Certainly not three times, anyway.

Definitely retain a lawyer and file an appeal, as well as contact your Congressman, both Representative and Senator, regardless of how they vote on gun control issues. This is a constituent matter and they like to be good guys.
 
I think you can also contact NICS and REQUEST an I.D. number to use on subsequent 4473 forms, which will ostensibly keep this from happening in future transactions.
 
MurBob said:
Am I to understand that if the NICS denies you they don't have to tell you why or show you what the denial reason is? That's ridiculous.

Even an institution providing you a loan has to tell you why the loan was denied and it gives you a free pass to get your credit report at no charge.
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The shop receives one of two results for each completed background check: "proceed" or "denied" (there is a third possible result of "cancelled", but that's pretty rare and I'm going to ignore it for simplicity's sake). A "proceed" means you're good to go and "denied" is exactly that, a denial. And sometimes the FBI can't complete the background check quickly enough for various reasons, so the shop gets an initial response of "delayed". A delay simply means they need more time to complete the background check (up to a maximum of 3 business days per federal law). The shop is never given a reason for any of those responses.

But you make it sound like the NICS system is specifically holding back information from the dealer who performs the check, but that's not how it works. Considering most of the time it takes a few seconds to process the NICS check after I type in the info and hit "enter", the system is obviously designed to be as efficient and as streamlined as possible; it's designed to allow the dealer to receive a quick "yes or no" answer, it's not designed to allow the dealer to delve into all the details of a customer's past. If a customer gets denied and wants to know why, they can find out via the appeal process.

MurBob said:
Could the OP's problem be a function of the sales guy not wanting to sell to them for some reason? Perhaps a different dealer? Am I off here?
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Yes, I think you're off here. Sure, I suppose it's possible that could happen, but I've never once heard of it happening. More importantly, there are records kept of every denial, so a dealer who did that would get in trouble pretty quickly once the customer started the appeal process.
 
Am I to understand that if the NICS denies you they don't have to tell you why or show you what the denial reason is? That's ridiculous.
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NO. You are informed of the reason for denial if the appeal is rejected
"If you have appealed a denied or delayed transaction and submitted your fingerprints to the AST, you will receive
a copy of your FBI identification record... if your appeal is unable to be resolved. If you would like a copy of your
FBI identification record without filing a NICS appeal, you may contact the Biometric Services Section’s Customer Service Group at 304-625-5590."

See here:
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/n...rocess/nics-appeal-frequently-asked-questions
 
It's definitely not a situation where it was a store owner denying the sale. We were able to watch the status change on the computer. Mine and his were done within minutes of each other and mine came back proceed and his delay then to denial. We know the business we are dealing with and they know us. The FBI does not give you any reason why you were denied. If you want to know you have to ask in writing which we have done. They are supposed to reply within 5 business days but it has been 15 business days and no response. The lawyer we contacted that couldn't help us is the top lawyer in the Area I live in. Not sure where else to go with that.
 
Just to clarify they do not finish the appeal process in 5 business days but if you write to them to ask them the general reason that you were denied they are supposed to let you know that within 5 business days. The appeal process takes over and beyond 180 days. Appeals have been halted as of this week so anyone else that has an issue is going to have to wait longer. At any rate, we have no answers.
 
We all understand the position you are in.

But, unfortunately, there is nothing that any of us can do for you (your husband).

The only options for moving forward are:
1. Filing an appeal and waiting for it to be processed.
2. Contacting a lawyer with knowledge in the area.
 
Frankenmauser, I didn't think anyone here would be able to fix it. I was just looking for info. You seem irritated that I've even brought it up. One of the reasons I'm not a fan of forums.
 
Velle, I don't believe you are detecting irritation. He is just making clear your only options.

People often hop onto the internet to get a bit of advice on a legal problem. The response "You need to speak with a lawyer in your state" can seem a bit cold, but it is ultimately more responsible than bunches of free but often erroneous advice that is also well intended and may seem friendlier.

The people above are trying to help you as much as they can.
 
Frankenmauser, I didn't think anyone here would be able to fix it. I was just looking for info. You seem irritated that I've even brought it up. One of the reasons I'm not a fan of forums.
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There's no irritation.

I simply don't see the point in writing a long-winded response, or bashing the politics behind this situation, when the only real options available to you have already been listed.

The situation sucks.
But we can't help.
We can't even offer legal advice beyond, "contact an attorney."



And, keep in mind that you've been a member here for a day.
Most of the people replying to your post have been members for 2, 3, or 5 years; with a few members pushing 8-10 years. You may not be aware that we've seen hundreds, if not thousands of these posts. No matter how much we talk about it, no matter how much we complain about good people getting denied due to government mistakes, no matter how many times the topic comes up, there's nothing we can do to help.
 
velle73 - I recommend researching current news concerning NICS. The system is overwhelmed according to Loretta Lynch (US AG).
 
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So if the NICS system is completely choked, that didn't happen in a day. Refusing to accept appeals sounds pretty fascist to me, since they are guaranteed by law.

Letting people know their appeals may take a while due to the system volume is one thing, but refusing them altogether is not cricket.
 
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