Nick News says the Alamo was all about slavery

ahenry

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WOAI (a San Antonio based news radio station) provided news story:

The Alamo a Symbol of Slavery?

(SAN ANTONIO) -- A claim on the children's cable TV outlet Nickelodeon that the 1836 Battle of the Alamo was fought so 'white farmers could keep their slaves' has sparked controversy and outrage in this city, where the Texans who died in the historic battle are held up as examples for people to emulate, 1200 WOAI news reported Tuesday.

The fifty second long piece on Nickelodeon, which is part of an ongoing series of features about the U.S. called 'My Back Yard," shows a San Antonio teenager telling the largely pre-teen audience that 'in the early 1800's, most of the people living in San Antonio were white farmers who brought their slaves with them.' It goes on to claim that conflict over slavery between slaveholding settlers and a Mexican government which had abolished slavery 'led up' to the Battle of the Alamo.

"I think its a shame that anybody would take that approach," Alamo Director David Stewart says. "I think its an insult to the Mexicans, the Tejanos, who fought for freedom and liberty in the Alamo as part of the defenders. It kind of slaps them in the face to claim that was the reason the battle took place."

E-mails obtained by WOAI radio show Alamo historian Dr. R. Bruce Winders, one of the country's leading experts on pre Civil War southwestern history, told Nickelodeon producers that the slavery claim was 'simplistic and inaccurate,' but the piece was aired anyway.

Mark Lyons, a senior producer for Nick News at Lucky Duck Productions in New York City, a contractor to Nickelodeon, which is a unit of Viacom, Inc. says the piece, called an 'interstitial,' was not meant to convey the full story of the Alamo.

"We recognize that there were several key issues in the Battle of the Alamo and one of them was slavery," Lyons said. "We want to tell our viewers something they may not have known, like the fact that at the time Texas was a part of Mexico."

Winders remains critical of the way the piece was presented.

"I think this is an extreme interpretation that was very one-sided as well as inaccurate," he said Monday. They replied that they wanted to get a Hispanic opinion of the battle. I pointed out that many people would not be able to tell that the piece was opinion and not fact, but they ran the story as it was."

Stewart says he hopes young people will not see the Alamo as a 'monument to slavery.'

"People decide to take their own slant on something and put it out there as fact when it's not necessarily fact," he said.

He also pointed out that the claim that 'most of the people' living in San Antonio in the 'early 1800s' were white farmers who brought their slaves with them' is also blatantly incorrect. San Antonio, which had been the key urban center of the Spanish province and later the Mexican state of Coahuila y Tejas, was almost entirely made up of Spanish-speaking people of Mexican and Spanish descent in the years before 1836. In fact, with the exception of Jim Bowie, who had married into the most prominent Tejano family in San Antonio, almost none of the Anglos who died in the Battle of the Alamo had any connection to San Antonio whatsoever, and many, including Davy Crockett, had arrived in Texas less than a year before the battle. William Barret Travis, the commander of the Texian forces at the Alamo, for example, was born in South Carolina, grew up in Alabama, and lived in Anahuac and San Felipe Texas. He arrived in San Antonio for the first time in his life as part of the Texian militia sent to relieve Mexican General Martin Perfecto de Cos' siege of Bexar in October of 1835, just three months before the start of the Alamo siege. And while there was a scattering of slaves in the cotton growing regions of extreme southeast Texas, there were almost no slaves in the San Antonio area. "The battle was fought here because Santa Anna had revoked the Constitution of 1824, and taken away the freedoms that the people came here to enjoy," Stewart said.

Winders says the slavery connection is a stretch at best, and mischaracterization as worst. "The slavery issue was a factor but not the main one. The revolt in Texas started as an effort to restore the Federal Republic under the (Mexican) constitution of 1824, but quickly evolved into a separatist movement. Moreover, Texas had actually been granted an exemption to the slavery ban by the Mexican government, as long as they didn't call them slaves," he wrote to the Nickelodeon producers.

Stewart pointed out that the 'patron' system which existed in Mexico throughout the 19th century was in fact, slavery by a different name.

The Alamo is by far the number one tourist attraction in Texas and one of the most visited spots in the United States. The Alamo church, with its characteristic curved roofline, regularly appears along with the State of Liberty, the Gateway Arch in St. Louis, and the golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco as one of the most recognized American landmarks worldwide.
The perception of the Battle of the Alamo, which began with a siege by 5,000 Mexican regular army troops under General Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna on February 23, 1836 and ended 13 days later when Santa Anna stormed the church, has evolved over time. In the 1960 movie starring John Wayne as Davy Crockett, the Alamo defenders are depicted as white heroes holding off a rabble of dark skinned marauders. Later depictions, leading up to the 2004 Disney movie starring Billy Bob Thornton in the Crockett role, have taken pains to explain the prominent role that Tejanos, Texans of Mexican descent, played in the battle, and explored the reasons Santa Anna, who is still universally despised in Mexico, played in the development of the American southwest.

Lyons says the Nickelodeon piece has run for about two weeks and has rotated out of the "My Back Yard" series. it is not expected to be aired again.

The next post has the rest of the story, whch includes a transcript of the Nick News sound bite.
 
Continuation of the above article from WOAI News:

Lyons says the Nickelodeon piece has run for about two weeks and has rotated out of the "My Back Yard" series. it is not expected to be aired again.
TRANSCRIPT OF NICKELODEON PROGRAM:
My name is Fabiola and I’m from San Antonio, Texas and the Alamo is in my backyard.

In 1718, the Mission of San Antonio de Valero was established.

The church structure is still standing today and it’s known as the Alamo.
The battle for the Alamo is often remembered as the rebellion of a small group of brave Texas farmers fighting against the Mexican army.

What you may not know is that at the time, Texas was a part of Mexico.
By the early 1800s, most of the people living in San Antonio were farmers who brought their slaves with them.

In 1829, Mexico abolished slavery and what followed was years of conflict between white farmers who wanted to keep their slaves and Mexican authorities.

This conflict led up to the battle for the Alamo.

In the end, General Santa Anna and 5000 Mexican soldiers surrounded the Alamo. And all of the defenders of the mission were killed.

So, when you remember the Alamo, think of the soldiers, the battles and the true story behind it.

STATEMENT FROM NICKELODEON: The Nick News “In My Backyard” bumps are intended to portray different perspectives on various landmarks in local areas. In no way, did Nickelodeon mean to discredit the reasoning behind, or the defenders of the Battle of the Alamo. We realize that there were several reasons for the Battle. This segment focused on just one of the various conflicts which led up the event.







For substantiation you can read the MSNBC story here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7794651/

I personally think this is one of the most blatant attempts at revisionist history I have ever seen. I am sick and damn tired of the never-ending and baseless attempts to malign the character of genuine heroes. It is shameful of Nickelodeon to willfully and maliciously slander the Heroes of the Texas Revolution. They filled their story with outright lies in an attempt to discredit unadulterated heroes that every person alive today should lookup to, and they did so to an audience of small children that are far from an age that is able to think critically or capable of evaluating the merits of what they’re told. Doing something like that should result in some serious consequences.
 
I guess this passes for history. The Texas revolution had so little to do with slavery that it is shocking that anybody really brought the issue up. The Mexican government had outlawed slavery long before the revolution, but allowed Southerner's to bring in "lifetime" indentured servants, so they'd execute a contract with their slaves for 99 years.

It is hard to know exactly what the Alamo was about, because there is strong evidence that it was about many things to many defenders. With Travis, I think it was about delay until escape was improbable and honor would not permit him to go.

For the Tejanos and most of the defenders, it was about reinstalling the Constitution of 1824 and keeping the decentralized government they were promised under the constitution, and to a few, it was simply a good scrap to get into.

Nobody at the Alamo knew of what was going on at Washington on the Brazos where the Declaration of Independence was signed and a provisional government organized.

getting your history from nickolodeon is like getting Biology from MTV.
 
I agree with that revisionist history statement. I am a history major and as such have been concentrating on the southern us as much as I am able. While slavery was an issue and the expansion of slavery to the west did go into Texas (mostly just the eastern 1/3 b/c of cotton) the Alamo was not about slavery. Most of the wars fought in Texas were expansionist and while the bureaucrats in D.C. were arguing about whether slavery should be allowed in the newly conquered territory, the fellas doing the work in the Alamo couldn't have really know about that. They should be lauded as heroes who gave up their lives for their belief in something bigger than themselves. I really don't like it when people slander dead people, unless they really deserve it and I'm sure you can think of a few who do. Just as an aside, history really isn't a steady thing, anyone can have their opinion on it and unless it is blatantly unfactual it is hard to definitively prove them wrong.
 
getting your history from nickolodeon is like getting Biology from MTV.
I think a lot of people do just that, or something very much like it. I've met surprisingly few people with a reasonable grasp of American history, much less any grasp of world history. It also goes a very long way to explain the pandemic of sexually transmitted disease in our country.

Kind of makes me feel like :barf:ing

:(
 
Fred,
I didn't care much for history before I was 20 years old so I don't blame the kids for being morons about it. What is worse than being ignorant is being wrong about it because in some weirdo's effort to make History interesting, they feel like they have to bash the U.S. for firebombing Dresden and Tokyo, nuking Hiroshima, and interring the Japs in camps. Sadly they don't mention Nan-King, Warsaw, or Auschwitz. They don't mention the stuff that makes us look good, only the bad stuff and half the time they get the bad stuff wrong too.

Viet Nam only gets mentioned in the context of Mei Lai and not of the thousands or hundreds of thousands who were helped, nor of the evils of communism. I thank God my teachers coming up mentioned communism like it was.

I have read about the Texas Revolution from both the Mexican perspective, the Tejano perspective, and the Texian perspective, and surprisingly, there is little exaggeration in any of the accounts. Even Santa-Anna's officers were quite frank about the events that generally jibe with what the Texians said happened. You can tell that the Mexicans held contempt (rightfully so) about what they percieved as a bunch of immigrants rushing in to stir up rebellion. After some of the posts here in the past six months, we feel the same way about Mexicans who come here illegally and pine to make Texas Mexico once more.

The Alamo was many things to many people- even then. Generally it was never about slavery for any participant on either side or I would assume that if it was, some officer on either side would have mentioned it. Rather the Mexicans saw it as lawless rebellion against just authority, and Texans saw it as a rightious restitution of the conditions that caused their migration here.

Worse than the Alamo is the complete butchery of the War Between the States that occurs by people who should know better.
 
getting your history from nickolodeon is like getting Biology from MTV.
So poignant is deserved a second quote...

I don't let my kids watch nickelodeon - the cartoon network is bad enough, but at least they don't portray thier programs as fact.
 
they feel like they have to bash the U.S. for firebombing Dresden
It was the British. We just used regular bombs and to a much smaller degree IIRC.
The lack of mentioning of Nan King makes me angry too. The Japanese society is the biggest revisionist in the free world IMO.
Then again, revisionism goes both ways like the many current Southern universities trying to twist the Souths motives for fighting the Civil War to say it had very little and almost nothing to do with their percieved right to keep slavery.
 
Slave populations of Texas:
1836 - 5,000
1840 - 11,000
1850 - 58,161 (US Census)
1860 - 182,000
In 1836 the Constitution of the Texas Republic reversed a Mexican Constitutional Statute that had allowed fugitive slaves to be free. The Republic of Texas said they shall remain slaves.
I don't think the Alamo is a symbol of slavery, slavery was no more than a peripheral issue at the time.
But, look above and see what the result was from the time of governance by the Republic of Texas and then the U.S.A.
The North might look haughtily down upon Southern slave holders, yet they had no problem putting excessive tariffs on cotton goods to keep the south as a "slave market" to the textile mills of the North and not make more money from selling to France and England. Money which probably would have made it expedient and good business to use blacks as hired free men in the South. I hold the whole of the USA, not the South, not Texas, as being responsible for one of the worst and immoral practices our country has indulged in.
 
In 1836 the Constitution of the Texas Republic reversed a Mexican Constitutional Statute that had allowed fugitive slaves to be free. The Republic of Texas said they shall remain slaves.
Its hard to say the 1836 constitution of the Republic of Texas “reversed” anything in the Mexican constitution since by that time Texas was no longer subject to anything Mexican.
 
WAIT A MINUTE!!!!! There is absolute proof that NICK gave an untrue , slanted and totally biased piece of drivel as if it were the truth ???? Well now I know where Dan Rather found part time work as a consultant .
 
The North might look haughtily down upon Southern slave holders, yet they had no problem putting excessive tariffs on cotton goods to keep the south as a "slave market" to the textile mills of the North and not make more money from selling to France and England. Money which probably would have made it expedient and good business to use blacks as hired free men in the South. I hold the whole of the USA, not the South, not Texas, as being responsible for one of the worst and immoral practices our country has indulged in.
I am sorry but I couldn't find this in the encyclopedia, I have never heard of this tarrif before or that it may have any influence on the issue of slavery, and it seems unlikely that if it existed for 70 years that it wouldn't have been mentioned in my "History of America before 1865" class. Could you cite a source that is not written by a possible revisionist or one that is from a vetted source from the web?
 
Ahenry: More to your point; the Mexican Constitution (1824) didn't exist on either side of the border anymore and hence the spark that caused the Texas Revolution to begin with. Remember how a former popular president became a dictator and began consolidating power in D.F.?
Hence- I don't see how it could be reversed even in MX when they no longer had the rule of law there either.

Unique,
The Mexicans did not allow the slaves to be free. The Mexicans allowed indentured servitude that lasted up to 99 years which IMO is fairly close to resembling slavery.

After 1836 lots of free men came to Texas thinking that with the war over and lots of cheap land, they could make money.

According to Henry Wolf who writes many Texas History books and is somewhat revered for his work by the Texas Historical Commission, the census breakdowns are as follows:

The total population of Texas in 1836 was 18,000.

In 1838, the total population was 640,000.

By my figuring, the population of free and slave grew 3,500% If the slave population grew by your figures (I'm not disputing those figures), the population of slaves lagged well behind the population growth as a whole. It only doubled (slightly more). Hence a 100% increase in slaves with a 3,500% increase in the general population.

So what's your point?

The Mexicans only denied negro "slavery". They had no compunction about enslaving Indians working in the mines of Durango and other hell-holes. The Mexicans weren't lilly white themselves and hence, they didn't mention anywhere that slavery was any part of their reasons for going to war. Texas was in a state of Rebellion and they were trying to save their union. They lost. We won. We wrote the history books, but on both sides of that conflict you find honest accounts that you don't find in the War between the states.

As far as the War Between the States, in my view of it, slavery had as much to do with the start of the war as the Holocaust had to do with the start of WWII. The ending of slavery was a pleasant outcome of the war, but as far as starting the war, only very few thought slavery was a reason to fight on either side and they were viewed as freaks on both sides (hence the hanging of John Brown by US troops under Colonel R.E. Lee- US Army).

You might want to reflect that the constition prohibited many of the acts that the Northern states were exercising in Congress, and so perhaps a more wholistic view of the CAUSE of the war might be that the 10th amendment, then as is now, wasn't worth much to the government but to the South it was the whole essence of the Federal Union.

But that's just my opinion!
 
The ending of slavery was a pleasant outcome of the war, but as far as starting the war, only very few thought slavery was a reason to fight on either side and they were viewed as freaks on both sides
There is plenty of documented evidence of the correspondence and public statements of the Southern leaders and people acting in their proxy that states the very reason for secession was the fear that Lincoln would allow an end to slavery in the whole country. The revisionist neo-confederates have made false unsubstantiated claims that the majority of Southerners did not like slavery and that the ones who fought did not own a slave themselves. Two things they do not say is that most of the Southern aristocracy and government leaders were slave owners and that the majority of Southern citizens either had someone in their family who owned a slave(s) or they associated with someone who did. There is also eveidence to show that most of the non-slave owners in the South had a favorable view to the institution of slavery because it was either a part of Southern life or because they thought that someday they too could afford to own a slave.

Yes, the North (and Lincoln) mostly did not respond to the Southern attacks because they wanted to end slavery, but because they wanted to preserve the union. But there is phenonemal proof that the South fought the war to keep slaves and that they used the eexcuse of "states rights" as a mechanism to do so.

Yes, the conditions in th South were worse than in the North in the years preceding the war, but this has been attributed to the Souths insistence to keep the institution of Slavery for years beyond it's economic value (if any to begin with). The South's use of the slaves to grow cotton instead of food and using them to manufacture goods and mine natural resources, had lead to a dependence on the North and Europe for food and goods. The use of slaves became so inneficient that this is what put a drain on the South to operate properly and not some trivial or possibly nonexistent tarrif.
 
Odd? I agree I didn't hear of it before, but wasn't it passed in 1861? How could this tarrif have influenced the Souths economy enough to "force" the South to continue slavery? The calls for secession started way before this act was passed. So what does it mean for you to use this tariff in this argument. (honest question and not a flame)
 
From Wikipedia:

The tax is significant for severely altering American commercial policy after a period of relative free trade to several decades of heavy protection. It replaced the Tariff of 1857. The Morrill Tariff is also remembered as a contentious issue that fueled sectional disputes on the eve of the American Civil War.

Slavery was indeed a part and issue in the civil war. I won't dispute that. It was not an issue in proportion and importance that it is now made to be.

To get more on topic of this thread, slavery had absolutely nothing to do with the Alamo or the Texas Revolution in my humbled opinion. With slavery not technically in existence in Texas, Cohuilla, or anywhere else in Mexico, I doubt seriously that either side worried much about all the lifelong indentured servants in the Mines of Taxaco or the cotton fields of the Brazos river bottom.

Lots of things were illegal but uninforced. In Texas you had to be Catholic to get your land grant. This process involved going to the priest and making your donation in wine, whiskey, beer and cash, getting your baptism certificate, and then going to the land agent to stake out your claim. Usually this was done just before or after finging your good baptist or Methodist church to attend in the area.

Again, my opinion is that the Mexicans with no experience in a liberal, enlightenment-inspired constitution, and with high suspicions of the motives of the North Americans moving into their Northern provinces, began a series of moves intended to discourage further migrations there.

The Texans were probably seeing these moves as hostile and in many cases they were which caused the Bradburn affair in Velasco (now present-day Galveston). Things spiraled out of control to where the peacemakers like SF Austin couldn't keep the peace anymore in the face of naked aggression and poof! You have a war.
 
The Tariff of 1857 was a major tax reduction in the United States, creating a mid-century lowpoint for tariffs. It amended the Walker Tariff of 1846 by lowering rates to around 17% on average.
You forgot to read the rest. The Morrill tariff act was signed into law by president Lincoln in 1861 after the war started. The way I read it, the Walker tariff of 1857 apparently did the opposite of what was claimed earlier about a tariff being unfair to the South and propagated the continued use of slaves. The Morrill act was made to pay for the war against the Southern rebellion to keep the institution of slavery. I still do not see how your mention of this act has to do with this discussion. This is still on topic because it shows how revisionists getting published can influence a way history is taught.

I do not know much about Texas history, but from what I have heard it was in part about slavery because of the outside influences of the pro slavery movement that wanted to annex Texas as a slave state. I think it is irresponsible to make the slavery issue a main focus of the Alamo (like in the news story), since most of the defenders were not doing it for the right to own slaves. But , the main cause of the Civil War was over slavery and the opposite to what you claim is true and there is a shift towards lessening the view of how important slavery was a cause of the start of the war. This shift started to gain momentum 50 years ago and it has allowed many in the South (Md included) to be taught a false history.
 
The Mexicans only denied negro "slavery". They had no compunction about enslaving Indians working in the mines of Durango and other hell-holes.

I forgot to mention that, not only was it possible for Americans to own Native American slaves in the 1830's, there were some who were owned as slaves.
 
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