Next generation U.S. small arms - anyone know what's next?

Warm Bore

New member
Hello all,

I've been casually searching the net for information on "next generation" small arms. Can't seem to find much. Saw the H&K G11 caseless system. Looked interesting. Anyone know of anything else on the drawing boards? I'm particularly interested in next generation military issue rifles.

Thanks to all for the help,

Warm Bore
 
For some lively discussion do a search here (and online) for the Objective Individual Combat Weapon (OICW)

bkm...
 
If gory gore pulls off his theft he will finish clinton's castration of the military by taking their guns and issuing mace and tasers. If Bush retains the victory expect a few good things, maybe even missile defense for the continental US.
 
The OICW is a thrown away and washed off SPIW weapon from the late 60's. It evolved into the M-16 with a grenade launcher on it. Cool weapon. I like the air-burst concept, but it needs to be an individual weapon. Why do they need to attach an SMG to it. Why not let the rifleman sling an M-4 or SOCOM pistol so he can pop grenades with a lighter, less complex weapon?

What's next? The ACR (advanced combat rifle) was a flop because they refused to include reliability and ergonomics into the mix. The G-11 was horribly complex, overdeveloped, and rediculous concept. It's nice to dream about Utopian concepts, but the Grunts want lightweight, rock-tough bullet hoses. Uh, that means the G-36. The Future is NOW.

Concepts I'd like to see other than that of the G-36 is a weapon with: integrated holo-sight (as in the Israeli Tavor); Graphite/Epoxy barrels; Laser-Rangefinding scope that auto-adjusts for bullet drop; integrated suppressors in EVERY issue rifle.
 
I'm not aware of anything soon other than the OICW (insert gagging smiley). I keep hearing different talk on what the OICW is for. First I heard it was going to be the new rifle. Then I heard it was going to replace support weapons like the grenade launchers. Last I heard the USMC gave up on it and the Army is still putzing in the lab with the design.

I also heard the Germans aren't going full bore forward with the G11 because
1) cost of the G11 and ammo
2) way less military spending money since the reunification

I'm sure there are some real far out weapons in some labs somewhere but it takes a lot of work to get one down to the size of a portable rifle, instead of something that needs a power pack the size of a pickup truck.

Edmund
 
Word is the caseless ammo guns are stalled because of heat dissipation problems. Ejecting a hot shell is an efficient way of removing the heat.

The OICW is the only new item being seriously considered (that I've heard of, which doesn't mean much) and is generally considered a joke. It's a combination of overkill (20mm programmable detonation rounds) and underkill (.223 short-barreled poodle shooter). Of note is that by firmly attaching these two parts, you've got something that's unweildy at long ranges (short-barreled .223 is not useful and just adds bulk) and unweildy at short ranges (heavy & bulky 20mm just gets in the way in close quarters).

I haven't heard anything negative about the increasingly popular FN P90, except a flaw in the magazine (may spew rounds when dropped) that presumably will be fixed. This thing penetrates Level IIIA body armor with small & light ammo, and is quite compact and efficient. (I'd like to hear Jeff "Bigger Holes Are Better" Cooper comment on this one.)

Anyone hear of any progress on bringing Cooper's "Thumper" to reality?
 
DoD must be thinking of robots and not humans regarding the OICW. The entire package is way too bulky and heavy. Ammo and batteries just provide more logistical nightmares.
Bad enough they slapped the 203 on the 16...we dont need an advanced version of it.
 
I respectfully disagree that the M203 attached to the M-16 is a bad idea. In fact, I think that it only needs a little improvement namely removal of the M-16. Reading historical criticism and praise for the M-16 it was said that one of the distinct advantages of this weapon was the ability to use the barrel/flash supressor as a grenade launcher. I think a grenade launcher is an integral part of the modern infantry squad.

I do REALLY like the idea of air-burst grenades. They should, however, not be included in a weapon system that has more gadgets on it than the space shuttle. I think that a 10-12 pound stand-alone weapon would be a benefit in modern combat.

I'll explain the air-burst concept. The grenadier selects a target and 'pickles' it with a laser rangefinder. He then programs the grenade to explode just beyond the object... say it's the rim of a bomb-crater. Set the fuse to detonate the grenade 6 feet beyond the rim. Once fired, the fuse counts the revolutions and calculates the exact moment of detonation. Nowhere to hide, as the advertisements say.

Only hardened bunkers are protection from grenades. Doorways, walls, ditches, foxholes, etc are not sufficient. You simply pick your target, turn a wheel a little, and pull the trigger.

The electronics are simple and straightforward if a bit expensive. I question the need for a backup weapon duct taped to the bottom of the launcher, but why build a $2000 weapon when you can build a $20,000 is the logic.

ATS-oicw2.jpg

oicw4.jpg
 
OICW

All I have to say about the OICW...

SLING ARMS

Oh, wait, you really can't sling it, can you? That's 'cause it weighs more than a SAW and is twice as bulky!

And the .223 rifle...that has what, a 9" barrel? Cripes. Lucky if you can hit a man sized target at 300 yards with that.

I understand that in one version, the rifle part splits off from the GL. OF course, in this configuration, the rifle has no stock, the GL can't be operated or even grasped properly, and neither have any iron sights, so you'd better hope you've got good batteries in there!

I've also heard that instead of full auto or even measly 3 round burst, the weapon has a TWO round burst. I concept drawing on http://www.fas.org/man shows a soldier with the GL detached, shooting from the hip in a 2 round burst, hitting 2 enemy soldiers at once. *SNICKER* Yeah, right... I'd post the pic but I don't know how...
 
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