Newly Found Treasures

Z

zippy13

New member
A friend found these while clearing out a long unattended garage after the passing of her mother. I suspect she'll be more interested in preserving them than any restoration; but, that 1860 may have possibilities. I've dealt only with replica guns, what do you restoration folks recommend?

dix1.jpg
 
Some folks have all thet luck !!!

If the hammer spring in that MUFF-Pistol is good, I'd have it shooting, in about two hours. Probably a .41. ...... ;)



Be Safe !!!
 
If the m1860 is a genuine antique Colt m1860 then restoration should not be on the agenda. Besides missing the wedge and wedge screw, the gun looks complete and in not too bad condition overall. Sure, it may not be a 2000$ piece, but if you "restore" it it will be worth less than it is now, while if you go easy, replace the wedge and screw and clean it up a bit value will go up some. In other words, if you restore the gun yourself and you´re not a truly competent professional restorer then you will ruin its value. If you leave it to a professional restorer, you will pay aproximately what a good condition original Colt m1860 would cost for the resto-work(2-3000$), and end up with a piece that is worth MAYBE 1-2000$ on the collectors market.

So, please don´t "restore" it yourself, just clean it up and replace the missing parts.
Saturate the areas covered in rust with a rust-penetrating oil and see what it takes to get the loose rust off. Seems more to be a case of powdery surface rust than any deeper corrosion, judging from the picture, and that should be easy enough to lift off without damaging the metal or any remaining original finish. When I say "see what it takes to get it off" it meens go easy. The toughest treatment should be an oily bronze-wool. Bronze is harder than the rust, but softer than the steel, so it will clean off the loose rust but leave the metal underneath intact. NO powertools should be used, no dremels or nothing. This is a job for your hands, oil and some mildly abrasive wool. If you´re not willing to do it right, then don´t do it at all.

I may sound harsh, but I can´t begin to tell you how many ruined antique guns I´ve seen. If you have to ask for advice here, you simply don´t have the knowledge to do a professional job on it. And even if you could do a professional job, the gun (judging from the picture) doesn´t need it. It just needs a bit of love and attention!

Anders Olsson
 
I'm with Swede. As my wife, the historic preservationist, would say, your first goal is to stop any ongoing damage, then to preserve what you have left. In your case, with the Colt (assuming that it's the real deal), you have a lot left. Since it sounds like your friend is interested in preservation, a careful, but thorough cleaning is just the thing.

Those are some very fortunate finds! Oh, and I agree with Rachen, too!
 
What Hardcase said. Museum conservators now believe that it is best to arrest further deterioration and then to preserve what remains. When funds and time are available, then restoration work may be done.

If you seek to preserve anything, clean it and then apply Renaissance Wax. It is ph neutral and was developed by the British Museum to preserve metal, wood and leather. You can buy it at your local Woodcraft Store.
 
Doc,
I've heard anecdotal stories of finds like this, but to be once-removed is as close as I'll ever get. I asked her to re-check the garage, there just might be a 1953 Corvette under a tarp.
 
Excellent find

I don't ask for much in life, but my ultimate dream is to find an old Colt 1860 Army, wrapped in oily rags, along with a pouch of double eagles. Is this really asking for to much?
 
Update

The 1860 seems to have the appropriate Colt markings. The barrel and frame have matching serial numbers 603xx (made in 1862?); but, the trigger guard and back strap have a different number 784xx (also from 1862?). The back strap has a socket for the stock clamp that appears to have seen some use. Yet the frame has neither the guide screws nor jumbo hammer screw. However, from the additional pic (below), the hammer screw looks out of place -- a replacement?

Might this piece have been converted for a stock with the installation of new guard (poorly fit), back strap and protruding hammer screw and then the hammer screw replaced a second time?

cylinder.jpg
 
good things like that never happen to me:(.........
you hear stories about people finding things in a neighbors attic, garage, etc. like the finding of serial #1 1873 colt, if i'm remembering right, this feller cleaned out a barn, attic, something like that around 1920. anyway, the older lady, who husband had been in the calvary, gave the this feller the revolver, after cleaning it up, he found the serial #, it simply had on it #1. its at the smithsonian, last i heard.that story was in , i think in guns & ammo, a few yrs. back.
i'm with the rest, just gently clean of the surface rust,....gently, then apply the recommended preservative, until somebody that is skilled in this area, to do it right.
 
Quote by Zippy13:Might this piece have been converted for a stock with the installation of new guard (poorly fit), back strap and protruding hammer screw and then the hammer screw replaced a second time?


Yes, that is a plausible explanation, but the backstrap may have been replaced for any other reason (the gun could have been dropped breaking it, or whatever else explanation one could come up with). You are correct that the hammerscrew looks out of place. The mixed numbers can´t be satisfactory explained in a manner that would satisfy a serious collector, thus the guns value is decreased. But it is still an antique revolver (from that last picture I feel confident in that it is the real thing, and not an aged replica). So my advice still is to clean it off gently, stop any ongoing corrosion and let it be. With the mixed numbers, a professional restoration is less offensive to the original purists like myself, but a professional restoration would cost a lot more than the gun is worth, and it´s value after the restoration would not match the money invested.

Anders Olsson
 
Anders,
Your explanation is just as plausible, the stock marks on the back strap may have occurred while on the donor gun. The finder's great grandfather served in the War Between the States. There's a lot of his service memorabilia in the house where his family has lived since 1914. Hopefully, when it's perused, there may be a reference to the Colt. A pic of him in uniform and holding it would be a miracle.
 
I would not use a bronze wool pad on it. I have used copper wool pads on firearms in the past and after rubbing them the copper rubbed off onto and transferred to the steel and I had to remove the copper with a copper dissolving solution. That was a pain and would surely not be the way to go on an antique. The same transference will happen with a brass or bronze wool pad. After rubbing a bit you will notice the steel suddenly looks like it is plated with the material of the pad.

As I was taught in the Marines by our drill instructors....use nothing but a wedge of wood and oil.

The wood we used was a wedge of wood like you would use to jam under a door to hold it open. Using the oil and wood wedge you can remove all the loose powdery rust or rust scale you need to without it affecting the patina.

Takes a little more time than a metal wool pad, but much safer to the gun's finish.



.
 
A teflon pad and soft scrub is the way to go. Whatever you use just take the loose stuff off and don't take it down to white metal. Try to keep the brown patina.
 
Quote by Bill Akins:"I have used copper wool pads on firearms in the past and after rubbing them the copper rubbed off onto and transferred to the steel and I had to remove the copper with a copper dissolving solution."

Hmm..., that has happened to me when using a piece of solid brass to "shave" off loose rust from a pitted area, never with bronze wool. I am not doubting you though, and as I said, bronze wool would be the very last resort and the toughest treatment I would ever use. One can get a lot done with an oily rag, if the oil has been allowed to penetrate and dissolve the rust properly first.

Anders Olsson
 
Now, it's just me, but I wouldn't use anything other than a lot of oil, a rag and elbow grease. Maybe a professional firearms conservationist would use some other tools, but as an amateur, all I would be after would be to arrest any active rust and prevent any further decay. And that's it. Once you start scrubbing with anything abrasive, even a teflon pad, you run the risk of removing more than you bargained for.

I've got great, great grandpa's Cold Lightning rifle at home and whenever I'm tempted to get after it with anything other than a rag and oil, I just remind myself that whatever rubs off won't rub back on. It's taken some time to get the rust spots off, but I did it without doing any damage of my own - just a rag and oil. And patience.

Like I said, that's just me.
 
Yeah, even a teflon pad and soft scrub will take one down to the white but it takes some doing. Civil War collectors use it to clean relics because it wont scratch..
 
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