Newer loader looking to make the move to necked cases.

Smokescreens

New member
Hey guys im a newer loader (about 6 months under my belt) so far i have loaded about 6,000 rounds between 9mm (115gn and 147gn) and .45acp (230gn)

I own a dillon xl650 and im looking to start loading necked cases as my title says. Right now im looking at .357sig, 300 blackout or .223/5.56

I know necked cases brings a whole new level to the game and i need more tools like a trimmer and deburing items but would the veterans here mind sharing their knowledge with a noobie?

Also i learn a lot faster by doing but watching helps a ton as well. So any good sites to watch loading would be great. I use to watch videos on youtube but with the new youtube policy i dont know how long it will be before they are removed rendering them useless.
 
Because you talk about your experience as 6,000 rounds, l’ll assume you are looking for pro tips on how to load lots of necked cartridges in bulk. My only advice there is “found free brass isn’t worth it.”

I’ll also assume from 300 Blackout that you are reloading for a semi-automatic. I don’t have much experience with necked brass, and most of that is for single shot or hand cycled, but here goes- all that fancy stuff of case length trimming and flash hole uniforming... I did that on my new brass just to verify it was all in spec and no defects in my new brass. I found that for my guns and my loads, I could simply resize the neck and get on with loading. Remember, I was reloading for single shot actions.

The more you shoot, the heavier you loads, and for semi-auto... my advice there is only “be safe, check a random sample, and maybe all the steps for a target/varmint reload may not be needed for your purpose.”

Did I mention that random brass off the range grass is a big bother????
 
Welcome to the forum.

Neck sizing is specifically recommended against for semi-autos with floating firing pins, like the AR, M1A, Garand, and the various foreign designs. The reasons are that it feeds less freely and is more likely to jam with the rapid feeding and chambering of a semi-auto, and because a case that hangs up at just the wrong moment on the way into the chamber can result in a slamfire or an OOB (Out Of Battery) firing, causing damage to the gun. For semi-autos, cases need to be resized fully.

Since not only the straight-sided neck but also the rest of the case body are resized, a simple carbide ring, with its small contact area cannot be used to resize bottleneck cases. The whole body has to contact the die, regardless of whether it is made of steel like most reloading dies, or carbide like commercial grade reloading dies. So, either way, the cases require high-pressure lubricant to be put on them. (As someone who's had a stuck case in a carbide .223 die, I can confirm this is so.) So you will have a lubrication and usually a lubrication cleaning-off activity associated with bottleneck cases. The .357 Sig is an exception, however, as its neck is so short and shoulder so slight that Redding is able to make a tapered carbide sizing button for it. Check with them for details on resizing that particular cartridge, as lube may not be necessary, but I don't know from personal experience as I don't reload for that round.

Since the whole body of a bottleneck case touches the die, as the case enters the die, the sides get narrowed down, which squeezes the shoulder forward, actually lengthening the case. When the shoulder is formed back to correct length, the excess brass flows into the neck area. Part of this goes forward, causing the need to trim the case, and part of it goes inward, forming an internal donut ring at the base of the neck. If you use a load that seats the bullet that far into the neck, it can be interfered with by that donut, necessitation that it be removed every few load cycles with an inside neck reamer.

So, overall, if you clean cases to protect your dies from scratching, you'll clean once for that and again to remove lubricant (though some just wipe it off the finished ammunition and a few just ignore it an leave it in place. You'll need to trim. You'll want to chamfer and deburr the trimmed cases. So there's more work after resizing. When you've loaded cases several times, you'll learn how much they grow at each resizing and can typically trim them back enough so they don't need trimming every load cycle, but you'll want to keep checking them. Some will grow more than others during resizing.

For semi-autos with floating firing pins, you'll also want to watch that primer seating is as complete as possible. Primers should be at least -0.003" below flush with the back of the case head for slamfire protection. -0.004" is more common. High primers need to be avoided and don't produce consistent ignition anyway, raising velocity variation, even when they do function properly.

The extra steps make reloading for bottleneck cases fit into progressive loading less easily than straight wall cases. It is common to clean them off and resize them and pull them right off the press again and clean them and trim them before going on to the priming station. You'll have to experiment with workflow some to see how you want to do this.
 
I will throw in my standard triming advice.

Go with the Gerard Tri Trimmer (if you plan to stick with under 4 cartridges)

If more get the Powered Gerard trimmer with the changeable heads.

Its what they call an off the shoulder trimmer, it trims, chamfers and deburrs.
I don't even bother to measure cases, I keep an eye on them and when any one case approach max length, I trim them all.

I have the Tri Trimmer as I am not gong to go wider caliber wise than maybe one more.

I chuck it into my drill, turn it upside down, clamp the drill in a vice and set the trigger lock on.

I can process 300 pieces in less than 15 minutes.

I tend to process brass in large groups and the Tri Trimmer is worth every penny of the $98 (does not include drill)

I have a Trim It II only because Gerard does not make the Tri Trimmer in my 7.5 Swiss case.

Some common cases can supposedly be used for doubles with Tri Trimmer, but changing the settings is a time consuming process (much worse on Trim it II) - not worth it.

The Gerard self power set allows you to change heads for like $30.

I have used my brother Gerard self powered, while its a great machine, its around $500 (with one head I think). So at 4-5 cartridges you cross a threshold cost wise.

The Gerard self powered is very nice, but my drill setup works every bit as good and the vices is setup on the edge of the bench, I have a shop stool, sit there with two pans, one to be trimmed, one to put trimmed in and go to town. Ergonomically it works better for me (my back hates standing in one place, sitting is ok)
 
Good info so far guys much appreciated. I was leaning on the dillon powered trimmer style but man that is spendy lol. I see some 3rd party setups that use a router with a end mill on it. Seeing i have a lathe and mill i figure i could possibly work something like that up out of some metal i have laying around. Maybe i will get lucky and i can repurpose my router lol. I do intend to load anything i shoot outside of rimfire but it will just take time to aquire my tooling. Im going to the gun and knife show this weekend and will have to see if anything jumps out at me. I own 4 pistol calibers and 3 rifle calibers but im allways interested in acquiring more calibers to run. Currently the round i would love to try is the .45 raptor out of a ar10 build. I live in a area where necked cases are not allowed for hunting and the .45 raptor/ 460 magnum is the longest case i can run.
 
Have no idea what a 357Sig look's like. But loading bottle neck case's is quite similar to straight case's. I'w would suggest you use the manufacturer's direction's on sizing bottler neck case's till your real comfortable moving on the neck sizing with an FL die. If the die your using has a neck expander on it, button right above the de-cap pin, that will stretch the case more than anything. When I FL size I always measure and trim after FL sizing. You'll have to do the same thing neck sizing with a die with a neck expander. I don't think I'd go with a collet die right now, I use a couple but just not familuar enough with then. When I do FL size, I use Hornady One shot as lube. I stand the case's up and spray from both sides at about a 45* angle from above, that put's lube inside the case. It will dry and not effect the powder or primer. Generally you don't have to flare the case mouth anymore to get the bullet started. Then boat tail bullet's are really nice because of the boat tail. I have never loaded for an auto of any kind, rifle that is. But I read years ago that you had to FL size them according to manufacturer directions. Anytime your not sure, return to basic's and get it right! There is the way of bumping the shoulder or partial sizing. I do partial sizing. But I'd suggest for the time being, don't do it. Beside's I'm not sure it will work on an semi auto action. But it is full length sizing that returns the case to match the rifle's chamber. Someone else will know better than I ever will if it will work in a semi auto. When you seat bullet's it's best to follow the measurement in the manual you use. Probably get the bullet well off the lands but the ammo should work well by not touching the lands with the bullet. Actually is all a simple process. You take a fired case and return it to spec's then load a bullet to the OLL that your manual calls for and shoot it. After that come's tweaking and I don't know how much tweaking semi auto loaders do. The end result is the ammo you load should chamber and fire as well as factory ammo.
 
Smokescreens,

If flat trimming of the case mouth is where you were going with the Dillon anyway, just get a Lee EZ-trim and chuck it in your drill press or mill on a low speeed. For about $20, you are set. But if you are willing to spend a bit more, the Giraud trimmer mentioned earlier will trim and chamfer and deburr all in one step and can be chucked in the power tools, too, and the shoulder registration approach means it won't over-trim if you are minimally resizing for a chamber that is on the long side of standard.
 
The nice thing about the shoulder trimmer is the totally lack of messing around.

Grab a case, insert , remove, do it again.

Little Crow with their WFT also makes a nice one, but it is only trim. Lower cost at $80, but the difference is not worth it to me to have to do the other two operations anyway.

I would say its in line with the powder dispensers. I like to shoot not reload and automate what I can and still get quality rounds.
 
Eventually you will come across the reference to the Redding primer pocket uniformer. This tool chucks to an electric drill and cuts the primer pocket depth to the optimum .003 to .004 below flush, a step to help prevent slam fires with semiauto rifles as mentioned previously. The harder CCI primers also helps to prevent slams.

Another tool for neck flaring, other than chamferring, is the Lyman M die that is used from the press, in the event you are opposed to removing brass from the inside of the case neck by chamfering.

If using military cases with crimped primer pockets, there are tools for swaging out the crimp. This is like compressing the crimp outward and there could be some springback resulting possiby in occasional primer slicing when inserting new primers. Some use a drill in an electric drill to remove the crimp and that works very well. Just a few turns with the drill will remove the crimp for good.
 
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Buy Wilson case gauge for every necked case caliber you will reload. It helps you know you’ve pushed the neck back to correct position and not too much which damages brass from overworking and will make your primer strikes too light from excessive space.

Buy Lyman case prep hand tool set. Spend alot of time prepping cases first time you reload them, much faster next time. 100 cases will make your hands hurt a lot, holding cases while chamfer, deburr, primer reaming, will give you cramps in hands, if you want to reload more volume than that allows then get a power case prep station. (I do by hand but shoot rarely enough that several evenings prepping cases by hand is tolerable to me)

Always keep brass you’ve processed and reloaded at least once separate from random brass you pick up if possible, it makes your case prep and check step much better.

Best cases to reload are always military crimped, because they are also properly annealed necks! Best for 223/5.56 is Lake City brass after someone blows through a case of green tip at the range... pick that stuff up, yes the primer pockets are a hassle but it’s worth it. If you reload cases a lot you’ll eventually need to anneal them or have damaged cases, I’m about to need an annealing setup myself but if you’ve got good brass to start with you’ll get several reloadings before then.


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Andrew - Lancaster, CA
NRA Life Member, SAF / CRPA / FPC member and supporter, USCCA Member
 
Another plug for the giraud tri-trimmer, so fast and efficient it's worth its weight in gold. Also comes pre-adjusted and ready to use right out of the box. Be careful of blisters and cramps like others mentioned tho.... i was trimming some cases and about 3-400 in i stopped to do something else and notice i had a HUGE blister on my finger where i was gripping the cases.

Bottleneck cases also take alot more force on the press to resize, i thought i jammed my first case in the die until i realized how much force it takes compared to pistol cases!
 
"...necked cases brings a whole new level..." Not really. Only real difference is you don't flare a bottle necked case, you chamfer the case mouth. Re-read your manual before you do anything.
While you will need a trimmer sooner or later, you don't trim every time. Only when the case stretches longer than the max case length. Means you need to check case lengths every time. Lock your calipres at that length(.223 is 1.760 -.030. Minimum case length is 1.730". Trim-to is 1.750". so anything between 1.750" and 1.760" doesn't need trimming. Your manual will tell you all the numbers you need.) and use it as a gauge. Best to have 'em all the same length to start though.
 
Bottle neck cases require case lube. During sizing if they start going into the die hard, withdraw the case and make sure it is lubed well. If they go in hard....they will be hard to withdraw...thats when the head rips off and you have a stuck case to deal with.
After sticking a case....you will not let that happen again.
Case lube is your bottle neck sizing friend !
Don't let all the information overload get to you , if you can reload 9mm Luger and 45 acp ammo , you can reload anything...not much difference.
Gary
 
That's the truth. Both times I stuck cases, they were going in hard and I knew I was strong enough to force them in anyway. It took me two times to learn that my strength wasn't what mattered.
 
Larger rifle cases are a bit harder but should not be that much harder.

Lack of lube.

There is a walkable line there, not enough and they are hard (to tearing off) vs too much and dents (which will shoot out as long as they are not creases)

I like the spray lubes, Hornady works best I think, I do sprits a bit of Lyman spray on as a bit of an adder now. Its too thick by itself, but as just a bit of it and the combo works well.
 
"Bottle neck cases require case lube"

Yes, this.
I just go find the grease gun I use for greasing the machinery and squirt a couple of pumps into a small dish, then when loading get a lil of that grease on the fingers of my left hand and I pick up a brass and rub a lil lube on it then into the sizer. Yes, I always clean off the lube after sizing.
 
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