Newbie shoulder holster questions

S

SkunkApe

New member
Hi. I'm fairly new CCW licensee, and I have a few questions regarding shoulder holsters.

1) Does anyone wear a shoulder holster UNDER a shirt? If not, why not? It seems to me the weapon would be equally as accesible as the Kramer shirt holster or a belly band. Do the straps print, or what?

2) Depending on the answer above, I'm leaning towards a shoulder holster worn under the shirt. I'm a small-framed guy, and I find IWB holsters uncomfortable and obvious. I little experimenting (not actual carry) with string and my 3" Ruger SP101 has shown me that I can conceal this weapon under my shirt, but the barrell needs to be vertical, or nearly vertical. A horizontal holster would protrude too far out the front or the back. The higher up towrds the armpit, the better. Does anyone make a vertical shoulder holster for the 3" SP101?

3) If I can't get a shoulder as above for the SP101, does anyone make shoulder holster for the J-frame revolvers? I think horizontal would be fine with a snubbie.

Thanks for you help.
 
It would be extremely difficult to not print while wearing a shoulder holster under just a shirt. The bulge visible under your arm would be obvious. I have worn a shoulder holster over a T-shirt and hidden with an unbottoned oversized shirt. It hides it decently and it is still easily accessible.

I just didn't like the shoulder holsters overall and finally ended up wearing a belt holster or IWB when required.
 
Hkmp5sd, thanks for your reply.

As I mentioned above, I tried positioning my gun with string in the horizontal position. It does print that way. However, if I hang it vertically it does not show at all. I have "love handles", so there is a nice gun-sized cavity between my arm and my waist. Unless the leather of the holster adds a lot of bulk, I'm sure I won't print.

Thanks again for your reply.
 
Another "printing" problem is the straps across the back. These can print even through a jacket, and in hot weather the shirt will cling, exposing the straps. Some shoulder holsters use white or flesh colored straps and holster so it won't show up as a dark shadow under a light colored jacket.

As to carrying the gun under a shirt, this is commonly known as "the Superman" carry. To draw the gun, you rip the shirt open, and grab the gun. Some people practice this draw with a snap closure Cowboy-type dress shirt, so the buttons aren't ripped off.

If you can keep the gun and straps from printing, this is a viable carry method, since most people never think about having a shoulder holster under a shirt.
 
Take a look at Ken Nulls' "SKR" and "SMZ" inverted shoulder rigs. These wear well over a T shirt, and under a tail-out shirt that is loose, or a little bulky, even in summer.....IF..(big IF)...you take the time to adjust the harness slowly and carefully until you have an optimum fit. Shoulder rigs are a pain if they are not fitted. Seat belts, wrinkles in the garment under the straps, sweating under the wider harness straps - all these tend to put a shoulder rig in a drawer after just a few times out. If you anticipate these things, dress to counteract them to the extent you can, and value this type of carry enough to put up with whatever discomforts are left, they can be very useful. The Null rigs work well with guns the weight of J frames and 101s. The Alessi Guardian is a leather inverted rig, very comfortable, but better under cool/cold weather shirts and jackets.

http://www.klnullholsters.com/
http://www.rfholsters.com/rfholsters/product.asp?dept_id=10&pf_id=AH-TGISR
 
Thanks, Dafariswheel and Walosi. I appreciate your thorough responses.

Walosi, I hadn't considered, or even been aware of, and inverted shoulder holster. When I said 'vertical", I was thinking muzzle down. Where exactly does the muzzle point with these inverted holsters? At your armpit?
 
Heh heh...almost, but not quite :eek: For me, the gun is most comfortable just to the left of my shirt pocket, and just low enough so that it doesn't feel like a lump when my arm is down in natural position. The adjustments include shortening/lengthening the straps to the holster, and the muzzles on mine point just forward of the shoulder. Drawing from an inverted rig involves a slight "hunch" forward of both shoulders. With practice, it is easy, but it is not a natural movement and needs to be worked out.
 
I'm having a little trouble mentally reconciling some of these shoulder holster designs and the "never let the muzzle point at something you don't intend to shoot" rule. I don't intend to shoot my shoulder, or the guy on the second floor.

I can understand the logic; the rule applies only when the gun is in hand. If it applied to guns not in hand, I'd be in violation now due to my loaded nightstand gun pointing at my floor lamp. Still, though, its going to take some careful mental consideration before I can walk around with a loaded weapon pointing in the general direction of my head. Doesn't anyone make a similar rig that points the muzzle down?

Thanks again for your response.
 
Vertical rigs for the little five shooters aren't as prevalent as they once were. "Muzzle awareness" is absolutely necessary, even for holstered guns, but your 101 is not going to fire until the trigger is pulled. Of the two Nulls, the SMZ is a possibility for an ND. Note his warning that it is not intended for use with revolvers that have a light double-action pull. The gun hangs from a hook through the trigger guard, and is held there by a strap that wraps the cylinder, fastened to the point of the hook with a snap fastener. To draw, you lift the gun slightly and twist - this breaks the snap and frees the gun. I've tried "factory issue" J frames, and an SP101 (empty of course) and have not been able to even unlock the cylinder latch drawing "panic speed" from this rig. If it is a bother, the SKR is a fully enclosed "normal" holster, with a pull-through snap for retention. The Alessi has a fully covered trigger, in a deep trigger guard pocket, and is retained by a thumb break.
 
From what I have read here over time, most shoulder holster users are like me - have one & like it but seldom wear it, because it is inconvenient in more situations than convenient.

Obviously, I don't speak for everyone & don't mean to imply that I do. It depends on your build, what you carry, & if you get into situations where you want to remove it.

For me, an IWB or OWB works better in most instances.

I've 2 shoulder rigs, but they spend more time hanging in the closet than they do from my shoulders.

That said, I have never read anything but positive comments on the Null holsters.
 
Maybe this will help:
There are four major methods of mounting a shoulder holster.

1. The standard upright version with the grip to the front, and the barrel pointing straight down toward the floor. (The Dirty Harry)

2. The old Berns-Martin design with the butt to the rear, the barrel pointing straight up and just in front of the shoulder.

3. The modern horizontal design with the butt pointing down, and the barrel pointing to the rear. (The "Miami Vice")

4. The old Stein Company "Snatch" holster design. This is simular to the horizontal type, but the barrel is pointing upward at a slight angle.

Disavantages by type:
1. The butt either sticks out like a sore thumb, or the gun butt is covered by the leather strap, and you can't get a shooting grip on the gun before partially drawing it. (You're juggling the gun during the draw). It also encourages sticking the elbow up in the air, because of the somewhat awkward angle of the wrist in getting a grip on the gun.

2. The Berns-Martin is in a awkward position, and the holster tends to shift during the day. This eventually results in the gun moving under the armpit, with the muzzle pointing directly into the armpit with the butt too far to the rear to grip quickly. In extreme cases, the gun butt will print through the back of the coat. Because of the awkward position, there is a tendency to wrap two fingers around the gun butt and partially draw the gun from the holster. (Again, jou're juggling the gun).

3. The horizontal points the muzzle at anyone standing behind you, and prints through the coat rather badly, but is the fastest draw of them all. This is also the only design that encourages a full shooting grip before starting the draw.

4. The Stein "Snatch" holster is a good comprimise, but is no longer available, and most people are unaware of the design.

Which one fits you is a matter of expermenting with the various designs.

I often make people cardboard and canvas strap expermental designs to determine which is best for them, before making a full leather rig. Get some cerial box cardboard and make a simple sheath to hold the gun, Try mounting some kind of cloth or canvas straps on it so it hangs like one of the above types.
Carefully play with it until you determine which is best for you, then shop around for a brand name design.
 
SkunkApe,

I've also heard good things about Ken Null's stuff, and from writing to him, he seems to be a nice guy.

That said, I'd highly encourage you to buy a high-quality belt and a matching OWB holster from any one of the good leather or kydex makers.

I've got a .44 spl five-shot in a Wild Bill's leather holster on me right now, (loaded gun weighs 22 oz, probably close to your ruger in size) and it is perfectly comfortable; I credit the excellent belt for most of that comfort!

http://www.wildbillsconcealment.com

I've also got an IWB holster on the other side, with a 1911-style snubby in it; it is comfy, but not as "invisible" (in terms of how it feels) as the OWB. The belt is a double-thick, 1.5 inch-wide one that I got from Bill's at the same time I ordered the holster for the Kimber.

In the summer I wear a light t-shirt tucked under a heavier t-shirt, (with the top shirt untucked,) and as far as I can tell, I don't print in any way. Obviously, in cooler weather it is easier to conceal stuff.

I probably will end up with a shoulder holster eventually, but it will be for winter use under a heavy shirt or jacket; think about going though your average day. Say you swing over to see a friend; are you going to sit there in their overheated kitchen still wearing your coat? If you don't do that now, and you start, won't that look a bit odd? "Hey, you notice that Skunky never takes off his coat anymore?"

An IWB or a short-length OWB holster is comfortable and very concealable, and I highly advise you to check them out again.

When I was just starting CCW I read through the TFL archives (a good idea any time you have a question... there is tons of good stuff to be found: <http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/search.php?s=> ) and one thing I saw over and over again was the opinion that most discomfort from belt holsters could be traced to a weak belt; the holster sags, moves around, or the gun even flips out!

A bad (uncomfortable) experience with CCW may cause you to stop carrying, or carry less than 100% of the time. (thinking that there is no comfortable way to carry) I see that as a bad thing; I like the idea of as many Good Guys going around armed as much as possible.

Anyway, I'll conclude my rant by saying... get the Null (or other quality) shoulder holster if you want, but don't think it is the only solution to carrying concealed.

-Jorah
 
Another possibility that I've used myself, and is very comfortable: have a competent tailor build a "holster pocket" into your jacket. This is done by first placing a sheet of something fairly stiff (e.g. leather, plastic, even teflon sheet) against the inside of the jacket lining, and attaching it. Then, the pocket material is added, of fairly strong cloth, so that it can take the weight of a handgun, and is secured to the sheet of stiff material (NOT to the jacket material, as this will pull out of shape from the weight - you really need that stiff backing to absorb this!). Finally, the pocket is finished and blended with the rest of the lining in terms of color, etc.

This has the advantage that one can make the pocket in various sizes, depending on what you carry. It won't work for heavy weapons (e.g. 1911, full-size K frame, etc.), as the jacket will be pulled out of shape: but I've carried a Glock 27 in great comfort that way. No straps to pull on your shoulders; no problem with access - just reach into what looks like an inside pocket; and if you need to take your jacket off, the weapon is removed with the jacket, and doesn't show, thus avoiding alarming the sheeple. However, don't leave your jacket anywhere!!! :D
 
I like shoulder holsters for carrying while driving. I use a Bianchi X-15 holster (vertical style) to carry a full size pistol (usually my Sig220 or Beretta 92) on long drives. I ware the holster over a t-shirt and then wear a loose shirt with the front bottons opened. I like to position the holster a little lover than usual so I have easy access to the grip with the seat belt on.
 
Jorah: That WildBills is outstanding looking.
There were several excellent solutions for me there. I was simply not aware of this maker.
I usually by Galco or El Paso Saddlery (O live in El Paso so can walk in say Hey can you make me this?!) The Operator looked good and the Fusion Paddle also struck my fancy. Particularly like the outfit approach to getting a rig than one piece here another there and the belt as best you can find to fit the pants you think you may wear on any partcular occasion. Thanks Muvho Senior.
 
Gila

I've got a Galco for my M&P Mod.10, and it is a good holster. (thanks, Tam!)

My other two are from Wild Bill, and they are really nice. The IWB looks as good as the day I got it, (two years ago) just darkened from sweat. The OWB I just got a few weeks ago, and is as stiff as a board, making the revolver tuck nice and tight into my left side, while still being easy to draw from.

Mind you, I think Bill is getting popular; the first rig I got from him came exactly when he predicted when I ordered it (8 weeks, if I recall correctly) but the second was a few weeks late; my impression is that he was a tad swamped. For me, it is worth the wait, and I plan to buy my future leather from him. The OWB looks like it was poured onto my Bulldog wet and allowed to dry.

I wear these two guns anywhere from 6-18 hours a day, and they are never uncomfortable.


Standard Disclaimer; I've no connection to Bill, I'm just a satisfied customer.


-Jorah
 
Shoulder Holster

I wear a Galco Jackass Shoulder Holster, very comfortable under the left arm. You can adjust the pistol to any horizontal position that is comfortable for your need. That could be lower, or canted up or down. It is an excellent holster rig if you do a lot of driving. I would highly recommend Galco. (Smith&Wesson 4513)

ED:) :D
 
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