new weapons policy at work

R

riddleofsteel

New member
i work at a surgical center owned by a worldwide company. during one of our breakroom debates on the second amendment a doctor that works with us revealed that he keeps a pistol locked in his car every day at work. one of the more anal retentive supervisors called the central home office to get a ruling from legal on what our weapons policy is.
OK get this...on the front doors are signs that say "No concealed weapons on these premises". our company policy as per home office is:

1. only sworn LEO's or security personnel in performance of thier duties are allowed to posses weapons in our facility (defined as the buildings).
2. off duty police that are on the premises to have surgery or treatment can be asked to surrender thier weapons into a lock box with two keys. one is to be held by the administrator, one is given to the LEO.
now the kicker!!
3. certain private citizens that are legally allowed to carry concealed weapons, either patients or staff may find themselves in a situation, (i.e. left at the facility for surgery or arriving at work without a car, walking or public transit ect.) with their lawfully carried weapon and no vehicle to lock them in. patient and employee lawfully owned and carried weapons locked in vehicles are acceptable. in these cases it is company policy that a lock box be provided to these permit holders to secure said weapons. in the case of a patient the administrator hold one key and the patient or his family member holds the other. in the case of employees the administrator holds both keys until the shift end.

boy talk about enlightened policy. i thought i would dance a jig. so the supervisor that thought she could make us park off premises just so we could store a firearm in our cars may see us with company lockboxes for our weapons.
SWEET

------------------
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote.
Let he that hath no sword sell his garment and buy one. Luke 22-36
They all hold swords, being expert in war: every man hath his sword upon his thigh because of fear in the night. Song of Solomon 3-8
The man that can keep his head and aims carefully when the situation has gone bad and lead is flying usually wins the fight.

[This message has been edited by riddleofsteel (edited August 30, 2000).]
 
Something else to bring up may be that it'd be a Good Thing to have an armed, and trained, person on the staff in the event that a former patient, or family member, decided that they hadn't been cared for adequately, and decided to come in and shoot up the place...

General rebuttal from the supervisor - "Well, that sounds like a good idea, but we'd want to make sure the person is adequately trained, and we (of course - without even asking, ya know?) know you're not, and there's just no money in the budget for a security guard."

You come back with - "Hey, I know that (outfit x) is doing a training program in extreme conflict remediation, including a "shoot/don't shoot" course, and it's only in three weeks. That's better training than security guards get, and it's only $1,500 for the week long course!" If they balk, offer to pay part of it, cuz you really wanna go to it anyway, right? Especially if it doesn't count against vacation time???
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by riddleofsteel:
1. only sworn LEO's or security personnel in performance of thier duties are allowed to posses weapons in our facility (defined as the buildings).
[/quote]

Amongst all of this grandiose pomposity, isn't it a bit laughable to declare something you probably have no control over in the first place?

Anyone know of any examples where an LEO must disarm themself before entering a business?

Regards
 
I work as an RN in a hospital in a metro area.
Just two weeks ago a relative of a patient was not happy with the care we gave, and so he went down to the parking garage, got his Suburban Assault Vehicle and drove though the front door.

A few months ago the estranged spouse of a patient came to "visit" and became enraged when the unarmed security officer would not divulge the room number of the patient.
So, he beat the pi$$ out of the guard.

I talked with one of the other guards about policies and SOP's.
According to him, he may only strike or attempt to detain an individual if he personally is attacked.
If a patient, family member, or employee is attacked; the guard is to call 911 and act as the best witness possible.
If someone comes running through the door and doesn't stop at the desk (to sign in after 9pm) he may not physically impede the bad guy.
He must ask him respectfully to stop, and if that doesn't work he is to call 911 and then follow from a safe distance in order to observe the actions of the perp.

So, my take on it is that we do not have "security guards", we have Barney the Dinosaur with a badge pinned on.

No offense at all to the guards, they work hard, and earn an honest pay.
It is the policy that is castrating their authority/power, not a shortcoming of the individual guard.

And, of course, no CCW allowed.
Punishable with immediate termination, arrest, and criminal penalties.

Sucks, huh?

I am less safe in a top-notch hospital, than I am when I stop at the liquor store to get some beers.

:(
-Kframe
 
Folks, just bide your time, and sue the FOOL out of the workplace the next time someone gets assaulted in a manner that could have been prevented by allowing employees to legally carry. There is NO WAY that they can guarentee your personal safety. The weapons policy just assures that you're easy pickin's.
 
Ahh, the peace-of-mind of the "free-kill", er, um, "gun-free" zones. Bottom line: These a$$holes won't lose a wink of sleep if you get your a$$ blown away. But I bet your loved ones will.

If you feel the need to carry, then DO IT. What's your life worth to you? Your spouse? The kids? I can never understand people that are in an emotional quandry over "should I?"

If you have to ask that question, should you have a firearm at all? Not a flame, just reality.
 
Kframe, Does the job description of these folks use the word "guard"? It sounds more like they are receptionist.
 
I'm lucky! I work in a company of 57 people and I know of 7 people who keep handguns in the office while working including the CFO who keeps a S&W 44mag Mountain gun in his briefcase :D Last Halloween he dressed up as G.I. Joe and came to work carrying his AR15 and wearing a Colt Government Model :eek: Our employee manual which was written by the CFO states "no unauthorized weapons are allowed on premise". If you have CCW you are authorized :p Several of us got permission to use our company UPS account to ship bulk ammo to the office (we get great rates) as long as we keep track and pay back at the end of the month. Thats what I call job benefit.
 
This is my fourth year conveying knowledge in a public school. It is the first complete year since I've invested in several handguns and enjoyed the wonderful pursuit of shooting. This year is also the first year of my staunch cynicism toward zero-tolerance policies on public school campuses. I don't like feeling like a fish in a barrel, and I know my critcal-thinking students (honest, they're out there) don't like it, either.

Over the summer break, I got quite used to breaking in my CCL. Next thing I know, pre-planning starts, and I get this eerie, naked-as-a-jaybird feeling as soon as I hit campus and enter my room. Fortunately, I teach in the DEEP SOUTH, and the majority of the kids in the community have grown up with guns in the home and in hand--well-educated kids in regards to the hunt and sporting clays and such. It is comforting to be able to talk to students about firearms and know that they have been reared on the four rules by pa and grandpa. (Guess I've rambled enough.)

Needless to say, I do envy those of you who may carry in the workplace and applaud the common sense of your employers.
 
I also work in a hospital, a trauma center, shootings have happened on or near hospital property several times. When the gangbangers get shot this is the hospital they are taken too. Our security guards also are allowed to do nothing. Sometimes big fights break out in the ER. I know of 3 of us in the lab that has a carry permit. We don't have lockers here anymore since our department was remodled, but when I was in school my gun got stolen out of my locked glovebox in my locked car in a parking garage with "security guards" (whom I have reason to believe broke into my car but that's another story). That was in SC where at the time you could not get a permit because it was legal to carry a firearm in your glovebox. Seemed like a good idea but all to easy to lose your gun. Now I don't carry one because I don't leave guns in cars. We don't have lockers so there is no place to put our belongings. We aren't supposed to have firearms anyway. Twice I've had to stay here during hurricane evacuations and brought my disassembled firearms. We had lockers back then but the first time someone saw the barrel of my shotgun and said something to someone. I was "talked to" after the hurricaine was over. This past time my friend took my longarms with her and evacuated and I took my pistols to work and locked them up. I don't know what I'll do the next time, seeing as how we don't have lockers, or what will happen if someone decides to really cause a problem for me.
The security guards here are a lot better than the ones at the hospital I went to school at which seemed to be nothing more than hired thieves. Breakins there were common and the perps where never caught.
 
I work in a research lab, and occasionally the PETA folks, and others, get themselves all worked up (it isn't us they should be protesting to - it's the FDA - but hey, try to tell that to 'em...). Since some of those folks have been becoming more and more violent, I've been severely nervous, but in light of keeping my job, I don't carry (state doesn't allow it either) at work... I'm not sure what I'd do, other than bug out in the other direction, if someone busted in here shooting...
 
Riddle,

Have you mentioned to management that allowing this "supervisor" to have key access to your firearm might put you and the company in violation of the law. After all you have no reason to believe that the supervisor is not a felon, been commited, or any of the other stuff that would make him inelegible to purchase a firearm. I would ask to see the supervisors rap sheet and the results from an interview by a mental health professional, throw in a rectal exam just for fun :) . Does the supervisor have the appropriate training to handle firearms? If the supervisor is doing this as a part of his job function there are probably OSHA issues that the company would have to deal with. How will the supervisor control his keys? How will he/she track what firearms are in his possession and who he allows to remove a firearm from his custody?

Also, you should mention that if a gun is lost, stolen, or misused while in the custody of the supervisor the legal ramifications will be 10 times worse than if a representative of the company had never had responsability for the gun.

If something bad happens and no one could stop it because the gun was locked up how might that influence a jury award?

If something happened and a supervisor pulls a gun out of a box and makes it worse, how would that look.

Some things they should think about. Perhaps the legal department should consider an enlightened policy like TACO mentioned; If its legal its authorized. It ties the company policy to state law which is difficult to attack. When you make your own rules you get to pay the freight when the rules do harm.
 
i agree. i have already brought up the legal ramifications of a "supervisor" having partial control of a firearm with no experience or knowledge of how to handle a gun or background checks like i have had. i have also expressed concern about what would happen if a TRUE problem arose and one of us was not allowed access to our pistol-resulting in possible death or injury that might have been averted.
the offical response was that the effort was to not deny the right of an employee to travel to and from work with thier lawfully owned and carried weapon just because they did not have a way to secure the weapon once they got to work.(i at least appreciate that) company policy specifies a locking box or drawer that has two locks with different keys. one key is kept by the patient and one key is kept by the supervisor. in case of employees both keys are to be kept by the supervisor. i have sent a written letter to legal to amend the regs so that the employee can at least keep one key so that no one can access the firearm without the employees knowledge. i will not leave my weapon in such a lockup unless i get one of the keys.
i have a small gunsafe bolted in my truck that holds my weapon at work and that will be the case for some time to come. at least then i could bug out the back door and if i thought i could do some good... re-enter with my weapon to prevent injury or death of my fellow employees.

------------------
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote.
Let he that hath no sword sell his garment and buy one. Luke 22-36
They all hold swords, being expert in war: every man hath his sword upon his thigh because of fear in the night. Song of Solomon 3-8
The man that can keep his head and aims carefully when the situation has gone bad and lead is flying usually wins the fight.
 
Sounds like you have a good dialogue going with these folks. You might try to gently lead them to the fact that the only people who would comply with the lock box policy would be those with no harmful intent therby making the whole program irrevelent. The last thing a bad guy is going to worry about is violating company policy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top