New to the forum, new HD shotgun. Now what?

S

shark71

Inactive
Howdy, all. By way of introduction, I guess I'll tell you a little about my current situation.

I'm two weeks away from moving back to New Jersey from Idaho, due to the (lack of) job situation. One of the many, many negatives involved in the move is that I can't take my trusty AR15 with me for home defense. Hence, I recently bought a new shotgun- a Remington 870 Express Tactical.

I have a few questions, many of which I'm sure have been fought over in here at length. I've done a couple of forum searches already, but to be frank, I don't have the time right now to wade through thousands of posts that may or may not be related to the info I'm looking for. So if you'll excuse the breach of etiquette, I'd certainly appreciate your expertise.

First, can you recommend some good books/videos on training with the home defense shotgun? I've watched a couple of clips from Clint Smith on youtube, and they look pretty good. Worth ordering the DVD? Others?

On a related note, does anyone know of a good training center in the Philadelphia area?

Your thoughts on a sling for an HD shotgun? How about a weapon light? I've heard the surefire forend gets unpleasant during extended training sessions- true? And if so, what are the best alternatives?

Thanks in advance for the info, and thanks for having me in here!
 
JUST ME... I add nuttin' to my gun but ammo. Slings in HD, for me, are nothing but a snag hazard noise maker. I own various lights but prefer them to be free agents on the night stand. I do not like anything but a factory traditional stock both fore and aft. I am of no help for the training info...
welcome and don't fret the lack of searching... your questions would yield a bajillion hits and many would be of little help to you...:D
Brent
 
First welcome to TFL.For HD shotguns I also subscribe to the KISS theory.
My HD shotgun is a 870 SPS turkey gun with 21" Bbl.I also keep the surefire in the night stand.
I actually was thinking of a Meprolite tritium bead.
 
Greetings, shark71, and welcome aboard.

Sorry your AR won't be going with you to the Garden State. How did you have your AR configured, and was it used exclusively for HD?

I'm with the others on this one, your R-870 Express Tactical is all the gun you'll need right out of the box. Remember your HD intent: you'll not be doing any forced entries with the local SWAT team nor military special ops with your new gun. I'm a believer in the KISS philosophy, too: You don't need offensive bells and whistles on a HD gun. That said, your new 870 is wanting many practice rounds run through it to smooth things out.
 
First, can you recommend some good books/videos on training with the home defense shotgun? I've watched a couple of clips from Clint Smith on youtube, and they look pretty good. Worth ordering the DVD? Others?
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Awerbuck is the man for fighting with a shotgun. There are a few others that come highly reccomended, but I can only vouch for him. But I'd assume Clint's SG DVD is full of well taught and practical ideas, he's always down to Earth and an original thinker.

Hogdogs is right on. If this is a pure HD gun, KISS. I do like a single point sling for retention if needed, does take away any immediate buttstroking ability in some unlikely, catastophic malfunction...but you still got a barrel to crack 'em with. The Surefire forearm is a must...if you reside in a coal mine.

Many favor a shotgun for a static position only HD weapon. Probably the best thing to do if you are single or with your SO in the same room, want to stay alive and out of any kind of trouble.
If you wanna check out sounds of intrusion, a full stock/18" pump carried in the Indoor ready position is plenty compact enough (much moreso than a pg gun pointed downrange) to go anywhere and be ready for a flash snap shot. Requires a slow creep too, maybe a good thing
 
Requires a slow creep too, maybe a good thing
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YEP!!!! Quiet as a passed out church mouse! Every pro crook knows that "The night has a thousand eyes" They are really on guard when being nefarious individuals at night especially. The less they know... the better your odds of pinning them down safely. Practice routing search patterns (if you plan on clearing the place) in daylight and after dark. I have a practiced routine to allow my eyes to adjust before standing up off the bed. From there, barring a new/no moon condition, I am able to see well enuff to sneak around silently and make out a person, Once the gun is drawn on them I will ask for verbal ID to verify if they are invited or family...
Finger is pointed at target out of trigger guard until gun fire is highly likely.
Brent
 
Yep, it's KISS for me too. I have an 870 Express with an 18.5" fixed modified choke and rifle sights, corncob fore end and no magazine extension. The rifle sights aren't necessary, but they are what I have trained and practiced with extensively and they work for me.

A lot depends on your situation. If you are living on 40 acres, a sling could be a good thing. If you are in an apartment, or like me, a ranch style house on a small city lot it may not be necessary. I have one because again I have trained and practiced extensively with it. Also consider the fact that a Home Defense weapon could become a Community Defense weapon. None of us knows what the future holds. With that in mind, simple is better.

You have made an excellent choice. Now, you need to practice, practice, practice. No practice is wasted. Time on the skeet or sporting clays range certainly translates to SD / HD. I can almost guarantee that a guy that is proficient at skeet will know how to lead a moving target in an HD situation.

You need to know how to load the weapon blindfolded. "Feed the Puppy". If you ain't shooting you should be loading. And you shouldn't have to look at the gun to do it.

When you know your weapon like your tongue knows your teeth, then you are a force to be reckoned with.

While I haven't seen either DVD, I would think that one from Awerbuck or Clint Smith would be good stuff. If you can afford it, there is no substitute for professional training. I took a defensive shotgun course from Bill Davison of Tac Pro Shooting Center in Stephenville, Texas. Bill is a former Royal British Marine and served in the Special Boat Service. Professional instruction will take you to a whole different level. Wish I could recommend someone in the Philadelphia area, but that is a bit out of my geography.

Good luck
 
Thanks

Thanks all for the advice- I like the KISS idea. On one of those video clips with Clint Smith, he recommends asking, "Does it solve a problem?" before adding accessories to any gun, and I think that's good advice.

I believe I'll skip the sling, then. I can't envision a defensive scenario in which I'd need to take the weapon out of the house, and my AR did fine w/o a sling, so I see no reason why the shotgun won't.

I still need to find a suitable light for it, though. I *can* envision needing to navigate the house with the gun at night, and unlike my AR, I don't think I'd be able to operate both the shotgun and a handheld light at the same time. (But maybe that's simply a training issue, and there's a technique I'm ignorant of?)

To address some of your other comments, in no particular order: I would MUCH rather be on the PA side of the border, both because of the AR and because of CCW laws. (Not to mention probably a hundred other day to day realities) But part of the reason I'm moving back is to help out my wife's parents, who are getting older and need to have someone in the home to help running the house. In the past year, I think they've had three police foot chases through their back yard and one pregnant bank robber who tried to hide out on their patio, so protection is a fairly significant part of the equation.

My AR15 is a hideously evil creation, complete with collapsible stock, permanently attached flash hider, and even a bayonet lug. I could fix the stock, but not the flash hider. And frankly, I know NJ and the town I'm moving to, and I wouldn't want to get caught shooting an intruder with any AR15, even if it was perfectly legal according to the text of the law.

It's too bad, because it has been my primary HD weapon, and as impressive as the effects of a shotgun are, I think the AR would better suit my needs. But that's neither here nor there, at this point.

At any rate, I went out and patterned the 870 yesterday with the half dozen buckshot loads I could find locally. I had been intending to use either #4 or #1 buck in it, but neither of those loads patterned worth darn. The BEST was Federal's 3" magnum flight control 00:

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But if someone broke in and that's the only load I had to shoot them with, I might just surrender. Ouch. If I can find some standard length stuff with Flite Control, I'll definitely try it, but for now, standard Federal 00 looks pretty good:

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Thanks again for the tips!
 
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As far as I know, there's no restriction on buckshot. I hope not, anyway. Any NJ folks in here know different?

Also, I was surprised to learn that NJ's restrictions on hollowpoints are not as severe as I originally thought. From what I can discern from the law, it's entirely legal to use hollowpoints inside the home. You just can't load your carry gun with them. But of course that's completely meaningless, since you can't carry a gun anyway.

Though again, if anyone knows better, I would definitely appreciate being corrected on that.
 
But part of the reason I'm moving back is to help out my wife's parents, who are getting older and need to have someone in the home to help running the house. In the past year, I think they've had three police foot chases through their back yard and one pregnant bank robber who tried to hide out on their patio, so protection is a fairly significant part of the equation.
Click to expand...

YIKES - sounds like Newark or the Oranges.........It would seem from a lot of posting regarding NJ, that the pump is about the best option. Since there are other folks, a light (as much as I HATE adding things) is probably a good idea. IF it ever came down to having to use it, a hunting version - wood stock, blue finish, no breacher muzzle break, etc. would probably help somewhat with the DA and others - just a guess.......
 
What made your AR illegal in Jersey? Probably a collapsible stock, supressor, 15+ mag Im guessing?

Put it back to factory, get some 15 rd mags and keep it. No sense in selling it just cause your moving to Jersey.

Hollow points are allowed in the state, but make sure to keep track of them (when transporting). Ive *heard* that if you get pulled over and have a few floating around the floor of your car, its a felony. Yet if they are boxed up and in your shooting bag (like they should be), its fine.
 
And for the shotgun....KISS.

Keep a dependable flashlight handy in the bedroom, but you really dont need to go all nuts making it tacticool. I mean if you wanna do that, more power to you, but practice and training will do you much better.
 
Lee, that was a fantastic post, thanks. I think I'm going to start off with Clint Smith's DVD while looking for some decent training in the Philly area.

Drez- don't worry, I'm not selling the AR15. I'm leaving it behind in Idaho, so it'll be here waiting for me when I get back. I just don't think it'd be worth the hassle and expense of reconfiguring it to be legal in Jersey and then getting hassled for it anyway if I ever had to use it in earnest. Besides, I figure the silver lining to moving back to New Jersey is that it affords me an opportunity to become proficient with the shotgun, right?

While I'm not looking for any tacticool points (I'd just as soon get rid of the ridiculous "breeching" attachment on the gun), I DO feel the need for a light on the gun. Contrary to what people sometimes say, you CAN hit what you can't see, and that presents me with a potential problem in the house I'm moving to.

Does anyone know how or if the streamlight TLR1 or the insights M3 would hold up to being mounted on a shotgun?

Oh, and as for the pregnant bank robber . . . Crazy, huh? My mother-in-law answered a knock on the door one afternoon last summer, and found a way pregnant lady on her doorstep looking bedraggled and asking to come in out of the heat to rest. MIL didn't let her in, but let her rest on the bench on the patio. (Which happens to be blocked from view from the street by a line of high hedges.) Found out later the cops had been pursuing the lady after she robbed the nearby bank.
 
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Does anyone know how or if the streamlight TLR1 or the insights M3 would hold up to being mounted on a shotgun?

Mine have so far- I have one TLR1 and a couple of M3s, several of the LEDwave Z5s (incandescent) also. And just got my first TLR3 LED to experiment with as well. The nice thing about QD weaponlights is that you can easily take them off for daytime practice, and aren't battering them unnecessarly with recoil. I like LED lights best for shotguns.

And take a look at the Streamlight 69906 mount- http://www.opticsplanet.net/streamlight-rem-870-tactical-mount-69906.html . Simple, and it works...

fwiw,

lpl
 
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