New to Reloading

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rookie042

Inactive
Hello all,
New to the forums and new to reloading. Momma got me my gear for christmas and looking forward to spending sometime getting into this hobby. I have been spending a lot of time reading and learning, as I would like to ensure that I am doing this correct. Looking mainly to start with .9mm and .223 reloads to start and move on from there. Currently working with a Lee single stage press and all of the normal goodies that come with the kit. Here is a complete list of items I am building my reloading kit with so far:

Lee Single stage Press
Lee Manual scale
Lyman 9mm 3 die kit
Lee 4 die .223 kit
CCI small Pistol primers
147 gr Hornady jhp
112 gr fmj 9mm
imp 700 - x powder
Cheapy Digital Scale (gr measurement)
Lyman 50 anniversary reloading guide
Data load sheets from Hornady

So here is a few questions I have. I have started slow made a few dummy rounds to ensure that my die settings are correct for the loads I am attempting to produce. A 9mm load with 147gr projectile, calls for 2.8 gr load and OAL of 1.10" in the Lyman book, and called a few family members that have been into reloading for awhile to consult their books and the same. Looking on the Hodgon site it calls for a starting load of 3.0 gr.

So in what I have learned is that increasing case pressure on semi-auto's is never a good thing, seeings that the 147gr projectiles are from my research heavier than the preferred 125gr loads for 9mm seem to be quite a bit longer than the 112 fmj projectiles that I have.

wanting to ensure that I do not have a failure the first time out with my reloads, I have 9 rounds that I loaded to the spec's that were found, 2.8gr load OAL of 1.10" seat nice in the barrel with no issues loading from the mag. I wanted to check with you guys as I have been lurking here for a month now reading your posts. Any feedback is greatly appreciated. Is my current load a cause for concern? Should I test fire these or pull and start over?

Here are my numbers
147gr JHP
2.8gr 700-x IMR
Projectile Length 0.66"
Case Length 0.74"
Book Suggested OAL 1.10" all loads measure exact
Shell Space from Bottom of Projectile 0.44"
Projectile Seat 0.33"
Projectile Seat 50% of overall Length of Projectile

All Rounds were ran with Lee seat and Crimp die and followed with Lee Factory Crimp Die.

Thanks and look forward to learning from the experience here.
 
I see the same on Hodgdon's site. My 2004 IMR manual shows a max load of 3.7, Hodgdon's 2009 manual shows a max load of 2.9, Lee's Modern Reloading says to start at 3.3 and max at 3.7. I think you're safe at 2.8. I just read where IMR had some quality control issues with the powder a while back and that might be why Hodgdon, who now owns IMR, was throwing conservative numbers.

Pay close attention to how your gun is ejecting the cases. If it seems weak or inconsistent you might need a stronger load. I bet it will work fine. Hodgdon is the only load data that gives a start of 2.6. Even if you go by Hodgdon's numbers I would not call it "just below max" as 2.7 is step 2 out of four to get there.

I see I made an error in that I thought you said you were using 2.7 grains when in fact you are using 2.8. So it is just under max. My bad.
 
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The powder maker's site will be the most up to date and the one you should use. It will also list the OAL for th4 cartridge in question. Personally, I found my best accuracy using 124 grain bullets. 147s were originally designed for subguns with slightly longer barrels.
 
I believe the first thing to consider is it is widely known that neither Lee or Lyman does any load testing. They publish data provided by the powder manufacturer. As you show the load data from Lee's Modern Reloading is the same as the IMR manual that was published in 2004. 14 years ago. What is the publish date on the Lee manual?

I believe today that I would be believing the most recent load data available. Especially when that data is coming from the manufacturer.

So if the most current load data states 2.6gr to 2.9gr I fail to see how 2.8gr isn't just below max. You may start there but I certainly wouldn't and wouldn't suggest anyone else to do it either. Especially someone just starting out.
 
I see I made an error in that I thought you said you were using 2.7 grains when in fact you are using 2.8. So it is just under max. My bad.
 
KMW is right about this. I was consulting older manuals. In loads this small it makes me wish that scales measured to the hundredth of a grain. 3.6% increments is a lot.
 
I've loaded a lot of handgun rounds over the years but have never been comfortable pushing max. About as close as I get is about .2 grs under max. Reason being fast powder's go ballistic with very small increment's of powder. Seldom ever use jacketed bullet's in hand guns either, I strongly favor cast bullet's. Jacketed are for carry gun's only and normally practice with cast in them too. I think there are places you can buy cast bullet's ready to go. Not sure where as I cast my own.

The rifle is my favorite tool. So much you can do with one. I didn't see in your list a caliper to measure length's of things like Case's ect. If yo don't have one I strongly suggest getting one, fairly inexpensive!

Moving into rifle's you move into slower burning powder's. I find there's a lot more leeway with slower powder's. I even have one rifle that I got only for shooting cast bullet's in. Just started with cast rifle bullet's about a year ago. I have my like's about jacketed bullet's, everyone does. Keep in mind if you select a bullet at moderate to heavy weight, your looking at a hunting bullet. I don't care for all of them then other's have their own preference's too. Non of them necessarily wrong. Same goes with powder, if you have data for the powder, it's not necessarily bad.

I did notice you only have small pistol primers. You don't want to use them in your 223, you need a small rifle primer there. There are people that use SP in rifles but my thought is the guy that made them claims they are for a certain class, I stick to it. Best thing to do when your just starting is to learn first how t make good safe ammo. Once your there, you'll experiment but by then you should have experienced what pressure does do. Extremely safe hobby but people have a way of messing it up now and then! Remember the rule of KISS, keep it simple stupid! Work's every time!
 
Small case; heavy bullet; fast propellant

What is your load purpose?

147 XTP's are generally loaded to max velocity for self-defense purposes. That doesn't mean your load purpose must be the same. Since you're just getting started, I can assume you just want them to safely go bang and travel downrange - preferably straight. But I still wanna know.

What gun is going to shoot these? Specifically, the barrel length. I just want to know for general knowledge.

I have Hornady's manual and they specify an OAL of 1.100" there. So you're right on spec. Hornady however, does not give data for 700X. Nor does the Speer manual. There's a reason for that, which brings me to my concern . . .

Here's what I am seeing: A new loader; loading a very small cartridge (9mm); with a very heavy jacketed bullet (147XTP); and a very fast propellant (700X). All these factors combined means a small margin for error and any minor changes can mean large changes in pressure. It's all rather precarious - especially for a new loader.

From the info you gave us, I believe your nine rounds already loaded will shoot just fine. I don't mean to frighten. I'm just saying that you're crafting a round that's a bit on the edge, so to speak. Especially for a new loader.

700X is much better suited for 115gn bullets. The lighter bullet makes for a more mild pressure curve. Or, moving to an intermediate speed propellant will do the same. Better yet, for a beginner, doing both would be the preferred approach.

Cutting your teeth with lighter bullets and intermediate propellants (such as AA#5, or HS-6) until you are comfortable with loading and have put a few hundred downrange would be the ideal way to start down the road of this very rewarding craft. That's my two pennies.
 
Worst thing about 700X is that it is a large flake powder and does not meter volumetrically very well in pistol load levels. I had to put a vibrator on my Dillon measure hopper to get reasonably close loads.

I would shelve the 700X and get a Ball (Hodgdon Spherical) powder that will meter well, and pick one that calls for 4 to 5 grains.
A friend uses CFE Pistol with good results.
 
All thanks for the quick replies on this. To answer a few questions, yes I am loading these to get an idea of how to do all of this since I am new so really just hoping these will go down range and not go KaBoom. These rounds will be ran through a S&W 9mm Shield. Now that I see that even the 2 sources that I checked had a start of 2.8, everyone else 2.6 has me a tad on the well crap side. I think I will take everyones advice and go get some different powder and projectiles. Powder was given to me, and the projectiles I grabbed as they were cheap and just starting out I was ok with that if I messed up learning. Figured once I started to get it down I would start buying in bulk. I as well do own calipers which is where all of the measurements came from. I know that out of the 9 loads I have done 2 are at 2.9 and the rest are 2.8, as I was trying to get my powder dropper setup I measured every load to ensure the grain count along with being new. Again thanks for the advice and I look forward to more reading and posts here.
 
Nothing wrong with 147 gr bullets, I shoot more of them than anything else in 9mm, loading 115 gr JHP only to simulate my reliable old 9BP carry ammo.

There are better powders. I shot a lot of 700X in pistols because I used to keep it on hand for 12 gauge trap loads. But sure does better 17 grains at a time than 3.
 
I am not going to suggest other bullets or powders at this point because this new member has already purchased what he has. He can use it up and still learn from it. My only real suggestion would be to put those first loads to the side and start at the beginning and load up 10 or so and shoot those first.

I too do not know what these will be used in but even at max load here I do not believe they will react into the +P range. The thing here that gives me pause is the limited 4gr, spread from start to max. I like to have a little more wiggle room than that. Just a small amount of bullet pushback could cause a real problem. Not that I've seen that yet. That pressure sensitivity is one of the primary reason I don't use TiteGroup.

rookie042 proceed slowly, ask questions and stay safe!
 
One word of advice. Triple check all of your measurements and data. Then check one more time before you head out. I mess up my numbers really bad sometimes and if I had not made that last check before shooting or boxing the ammo.... Make a safety routine and stick to that routine.
 
I'm slow and pokey as I see you responded while I was typing!

Again, you can use what you have and still be successful. Just take the time to think about what you are using and how it interacts with each other. You did right by weighing each charge to verify. I would suggest to continue until you get a good feel for the equipment and the supplies. By doing that you will gain experience and get to see how well and consistent the powder measures out.

Don't know how much powder you were gifted but trust us, once you get started it won't last long. Then go ahead and look into other powders. Think about the bullet that you want to use long term and then study the powders and how they react with that bullet.

For 9mm I have settled on 2 powders, Winchester 231/Hodgdon HP38 (they are the same powder), and Ramshot Silhouette because I shoot a lot indoors and it is less smokey. Others use a lot of TiteGroup, AA#5, Bullseye and many others.
 
It is a 1lb jar of the imr 700-x, Came from a family member that said it was a forgiving powder. He has been reloading for quite awhile. Think I will most likely set these rounds aside and do a little more research on powder charge to ensure I get my first loads good. I will keep measuring the loads as they go in for now kinda like to ensure that I am getting my exact charge, seeings how the Lee powder dropper seems to be very inconsistent with this 700-x flake powder. I will head out to the shop on the way home and pick up some ball style powder with a little more wiggle room in the min/max seems more practical for just starting out. Again thank you for all of the input.
 
I would suggest a few tutorial sessions with that family member. For the few people that I have brought into the reloading world I had them start with the exact components that are published by the powder manufacturers. Once they developed an accurate and safe load then they could start deviating with similar types of bullets and go from there.

I also recommend a check list of all of the steps required. You are loading on a single stage so you will be batch processing. I suggest getting the process down for pistol first. Your manual will outline the process - read it until you can recite it. Once you are comfortable with the pistol process then go for the rifle.

The case prep for rifle is half the process. I have built a DIY $75 Case Annealer that I run my brass through every other loading. I clean, anneal (every other time), lube, size/de-prime, check with case guide, trim if necessary, ream primer pocket if necessary, then brush primer pocket to remove any residue for easy seating and then drop back in the vibratory tumbler to clean the lube off. I have two presses that both get used in my rifle case prep. For 223 I will skip as much as I can get away with as I am not as concerned in protecting the brass as it is readily available. For my 6.8 and 30-06 I am diligent to the process as that brass is harder to come by and much more expensive.
 
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