New to reloading - 7mm-08 load pending

T

Tallest

New member
Good morning!

I'll start by saying I am pretty much brand new to reloading. I have recently acquired my own press, and I am starting to put things together for a 7mm-08 Rem load.

What I will be working with:
Ruger American 7mm-08 with 22" Barrel with a 1:9.5" twist. (please don't knock the inexpensive rifle, I love this gun, and it won't be changing!)
I have about 80 fire formed brass to start with.
I would like to shoot 140 grain bullets.
The purpose of the load will be deer hunting in hilly terrain, with tree cover, but mostly open fields. Shot distance will vary 80 - 400 yards.
I am capable of the mechanics of shooting in this setting, but I would like to fine tune to load that is reasonably consistent of 1moa or less.

Right now, with factory ammo, my rifle will shoot 2 out of 3 sub moa, then #3 will be a random flier. I think some of the factory loads I've been shooting may be just a little too hot. (Hornady Superformance, Winchester Ballistic Silvertips, Federal Vital Shok with Nosler Ballistic tips). I'd like to shoot similar bullets, but at 3%-6% lower velocities.

Apart from that, I am a bit desperate for some guidance, or at least some experienced opinions. I know how to operate the machinery, and some tell me I observe safety to a fault. But where I need help is where to start.

I have done extensive reading on manufacturers' websites, reloading manuals, this forum and others, trying to pick a bullet and powder combination. But the more I read, the more it seems like almost anything could be just write or completely wrong for my intentions. And alas, I don't have limitless resources to just start trying everything willy-nilly until I hit my mark. I'm not wanting anyone to make the choices for me, but help in narrowing the playing field would be great.

Your humble servant,
 
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The 308 family case always does well with medium burn powders for medium weight bullets. 40 grains of H-4895 or IMR 4064 under 140s are listed as mild loads and will be right at 2700. If you don't own a manual, get one or two. I would not shoot these loads past 300 yards. I use 42gr of H-4895 in my 308 with 150s at 2588 and shoot 1/2"
 
Sounds like you are ready to load some ammo. I really like the Lyman Reloading Handbook. Sounds like you have some books. Well, read the instructions and proceed. Always start low and work up. Load a few and go shoot. See how they do. Load a few more and go shoot. etc. Always keep records. IOW write it down so you will have a reference. Pick a bullet in the weight range you want to shoot and look up a load for it in a book. My Lyman manual gives several loads with different powders and also notes the one that they suggest as most accurate. That would be the powder I would suggest.
Oh, may I also say, please do not take loads from the internet. Get a book!
Have fun!
 
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"...don't knock the inexpensive rifle..." It's not that inexpensive.
Hornady Superformance is their old 'Light Magnum' line of several years ago. Basically max loads.
Winchester BT's and No$ler BT's are essentially the same thing. Neither of 'em invented that type of bullet either. CIL (Canadian Industries Ltd.) did that in the late 60's with their Sabre Tip bullet. Same thing. A nylon or other synthetic tip.
"...2 out of 3 sub moa, then..." Not exactly unusual with factory ammo. S'why we reload. However, "1 moa or less" is not necessary for deer hunting and a Ruger may or may not be capable of it. Consistency is far more important than group size. Two or 3" every time at 100, is good enough for deer and every other beastie you might hunt with it.
Forget the velocities altogether. Accuracy is more important. The chances of you duplicating factory or load manual velocities are slim anyway. They reflect the conditions using the exact components and firearm of the test day only.
Like Jamaica says, the Lyman Reloading Handbook(far more versatile than any bullet or powder maker's book) has tested accuracy loads for every cartridge by bullet weight. I've found that using that powder generally works every time. No idea what it is for a 140 7mm-08, not at home to look either.
Don't worry about compressed loads either. Or being at or close to Max loads. All that is safe.
40 grains of H4895 is .5 below max. 40 grains of IMR4895 is a full grain below Max.
42 grains of H-4895 is not running 2588 FPS. Start load is 41.5 at 2677. Not that it matters. Is a good example of different manuals giving slightly different data. That's normal too. Barrel length and rifling twist make a difference too.
 
I was going to suggest Varget, too, after reading the OP, so I think CarJunkieLS1 steered you well. Varget will not get you to the tip top velocities, but its accuracy reputation and relative insensitivity to small amounts of charge error and to temperatures makes it a pretty perfect choice, given your objective. That said, keep in mind that all guns may have a mind of their own and yours might get persnickety and somehow just not like it. Then look at 4064 and 4895 and see if it likes them better.

Tallest said:
Right now, with factory ammo, my rifle will shoot 2 out of 3 sub moa, then #3 will be a random flier.
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How do you tell that the good two weren't just randomly closer to one another, rather than other shot being a random flier? Unfortunately, three shot groups tell you little unless you shoot more than one and they all turn out to be small and to center in the same place. I strongly suggest you use identical targets for several of these groups, and then overlay them at the aiming point and hold them up to a bright light and see what your groups are actually getting.

Below is the output of Excel's random number generator producing a target with equal standard deviation all directions (a round group, as close as randomness will make it). 9 "shots" are overlayed in the upper left target, with the X being the mean center of the group (left because of a wind deflection component I'd put in) but they are divided into groups of three in the order in which they were generated. Looking only at any one of the three, what could you conclude?

Someone had a link up recently to a fellow who did this exact experiment with an AR, shooting five groups of three and then overlaying them to get a real sense of what the gun was doing. I wish I had copied the link. It showed the exact same thing going on, lest you should think this is just a computer simulation quirk.

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For ideas on how to find a best load, look here for the old Audette Ladder, and look here for the OCW method. The OCW uses three shot sets, but if you evaluate them with a running average so you actually consider 9 at a time, it works pretty well.
 
MY Rem model 7 likes 140s from Sierra and Nosler the best. WIN 760 gave me the best results followed by IMR 4064 and then IMR 4895
 
I just loaded a box for my 7mm-08 before rifle season started. Its a remlin model 7 youth that i put in a fullsize synthetic stock, its very accurate even though it has an 18" barrel. The recipe was (ALWAYS WORK YOUR LOADS UP NEVER START WITH WHAT SOMEONE POSTS)
Federal 7mm-08 brasa trimmed just under max length
Remington 9 1/2 large rifle primers
40.5 grs h380
154gr hornady interlock round nose loaded at max length my magazine will alllow

I didnt chrono it and i know its under max. That just seemed to be the sweet spot for the rifle. First 3 test shots of 40.5grs were measured at just under 7\8ths of an inch at 100
 
Wow! A lot of good information here! I really appreciate it. I think I'm going to start with Sierra 140 grain Game Kings, track down a Sierra Manual (only one I currently have access to is pre 7mm-08! :D) And go with what it says is most accurate load tested. Then I'll start really paying attention to and overlapping my groups to discern what exactly is going on.

Thank you all! And if anything else comes to mind, please pass it on. I am going to forever be a student of this stuff, and there's a lot to learn.
 
I have several "nice" rifles. But I also have 3 of the Ruger Americans that combined cost me less than a few individual rifles. The Rugers are the most accurate rifles in my safes.

If you're getting 2 shots close and a flyer I suspect you've got an issue with the barrel touching the stock. The American stocks are flimsy, but due to their unique bedding system that does not effect accuracy as long as there is enough clearance for the barrel.

I used a file and sandpaper to open up the barrel channel on all of the stocks to give a little more space between the barrel and forend. I suspect this will help with consistency more than the load.
 
jmr40 said:
I have several "nice" rifles. But I also have 3 of the Ruger Americans that combined cost me less than a few individual rifles. The Rugers are the most accurate rifles in my safes.



If you're getting 2 shots close and a flyer I suspect you've got an issue with the barrel touching the stock. The American stocks are flimsy, but due to their unique bedding system that does not effect accuracy as long as there is enough clearance for the barrel.



I used a file and sandpaper to open up the barrel channel on all of the stocks to give a little more space between the barrel and forend. I suspect this will help with consistency more than the load.
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I hadn’t thought of that, but in the fore end, the barrel clears the stock on the right, but makes contact on the left. I’ll look into this next rainy day or when muzzleloader season ends. I’m a bit of a novice when it comes to rifle disassembly, so I’ll have to take my time.
 
i would recommend getting a rcbs precision mic. Watch a couple you tube videos to learn how to use it (not very complicated) but this will really help with consistent head space and bullet jump. In my experience out of rifles I have loaded for this is where accuracy is made and lost in the head space and bullet jump. As far as loads go I'm not going to get into powders or brass (everybody has their opinions and each rifle likes different combinations) but me personally I have had excellent results shooting the nosler accubonds. Very accurate and a hard hitting bullet. I shoot 160's out of a 7mm R.E.M. Mag so in a 7mm-08 I'd prolly go with 140's.
 
Tallest,
Welcome to the forum and reloading.

From what you described we do the same kind of shooting. Your Ruger is a fine rifle and more than capable of what your after. I'm shooting a Stevens 200 that i bought used in 7mm-08 AI. Any and all work done to my rifles i do in my basement.

You don't need expensive stuff to get out to 500 yards. I have a Harbor Freight work bench that i use for reloading. My press is a Lee 4 hole turret, with mostly Lee dies.

Many on here like Hodgdon powder, and there isn't a thing wrong with that! But there are other powders out there that are just as good. I use Varget for my 120gr. Hornady varmint bullets.
For 140gr. I use mostly Alliant Power Pro 2000. I also use H414, and IMR 4350, IMR 4166. When i'm looking towards a little more velocity Alliant RL 17 gets the nod.
Ramshot Big Game is also good if looking to squeeze some velocity out, but finding it is hit &miss so i don't use it.

The Sierra Game King is a good bullet, but i've found the need to drop powder charges a grain or 2 over other bullets.

For range plinking Hornady 139gr. SST works good, especially for the price.
140gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips work great on game and give me slightly better groupings than the SST. But are way more expensive per bullet. They actually end up more expensive per 100 than the Berger VLD Hunting.
 
Tallest, I have 3 7-08's and they all like a different bullet and loads to achieve 1/2" groups. I also use a hornady bullet comparator to check my chamber length and then load my bullets accordingly. I really like Sierra 140 gr gamekings for deer but I seem to get my best accuracy out of 120gr Nosler ballistic tips, especially out of my Browning xbolt 1/2" @ 100 yds. I do get my best all around results with Varget or IMR4064. I have also used 130 gr speer bullets but I didnt really like the way they performed on deer although they shoot great out of my Vanguard S2.
 
Thanks again, Folks! And Merry Christmas!

NHShooter, which powder do you most often pair with the Sierras?


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Tallest, I get my best groups with 120 and 140 gr sierras using varget, I have worked them up to max loads and I keep them 25 thousands off the lands. I also get very good groups using 120 gr nosler ballistic tips and varget powder. I hope you like your 7-08 as much as I like mine, its my goto for whitetails.
 
jmr40 - I spent some time over the weekend working on the stock. The groups have tightened considerably! Thank you!

NHSHOOTER - I do really like my 7-08! I've shot 270s, 308s, 300WMs, 30-06s, 30-30s, 25-06s, 7mmx57 & 8mmx57 Mausers, and probably a few more. But I don't see myself reaching for anything but the 7mm-08 for quite a while, except maybe my old savage 243 for coyotes and ROUSs.

To everyone else, also, thank you! I will probably be coming back to read over this again and again as I refine my process. And I'm sure I'll have more questions.
 
42 grains of H-4895 is not running 2588 FPS. Start load is 41.5 at 2677. Not that it matters. Is a good example of different manuals giving slightly different data. That's normal too. Barrel length and rifling twist make a difference too.
Click to expand...
That load was clocked (10 shots) over an Oehler 35, with an extreme spread of 7fps.
 
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