OK, so I just got me a new Ar-15. Never reloaded for this calibar before. In the process of finding bullets it seems that most have a Cannelure. Does it really matter as you really don't need a crimp per say..I would like to start with the 55 and 62gr fmj...will be using H335 powder and CCI primers. Thoughts, opinions welcome..I have the small base dies ordered.
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New to reloading 223
- Thread starter cervri
- Start date
Might help to know a little bit more about what your plans are for the bullets (accuracy for targets, hunting, range distance, close action, etc).
For me, I mostly shoot cheap for AR's and use bullets like Xtreme on sale or free shipping, etc. and am not a hunter. I have a 1:9 twist and it likes those 55 and 62 grainers ok. I could do better w/ staying out of the cannalures, but I prefer to use cannalured.
Some folks like long rang accuracy and go for Sierras and Bergers for instance and ladder test for the best.
If you have a 1:7 or 1:8 twist, it may not be a happy camper w/ 55 grainers for accuracy but are fine for close up pop cans!
For me, I mostly shoot cheap for AR's and use bullets like Xtreme on sale or free shipping, etc. and am not a hunter. I have a 1:9 twist and it likes those 55 and 62 grainers ok. I could do better w/ staying out of the cannalures, but I prefer to use cannalured.
Some folks like long rang accuracy and go for Sierras and Bergers for instance and ladder test for the best.
If you have a 1:7 or 1:8 twist, it may not be a happy camper w/ 55 grainers for accuracy but are fine for close up pop cans!
Right or wrong, I personally believe that any ammo used in a semi auto firearm should have a crimp. I'd rather be safe than sorry. I use the Lee Factory Crimp die set. With that said, I even crimp reloads that are dedicated to bolt action and single shot rifles. Not because I like to spend the extra time crimping, but because I have found that a light to medium crimp actually gives me better accuracy. Better accuracy in the range of 10-15%. That better accuracy makes it worth it to me. I spent an entire afternoon a couple years back testing this. I had 5 or 6 different load configurations in .223, and loaded 20 rounds of each, then crimped 10 of each. I kept everything clearly marked in separate baggies. Shot for groups sizes at 100 yards, marking the targets with the loadings. I didn't even study the targets until I got home. Measured and analyzed the groups on the targets, and came up with anywhere from 10% to one at 15% better accuracy with the crimped reloads. I'm not a bad shot, but far from the best, and spending an extra few minutes crimping ammo to gain 10% better accuracy is help I sure can use, and help anyone can use. I know, I know, benchrest shooters do not crimp their ammo, or very few do. But if it works for me, why not do it?
My loads will be primarily for plinking with an occasioanal coyote, rabbit or pig. I figured I would site in for 100 yrds. Mine has a 1-8 twist and no sights yet. Have a scope ordered. I purchased a couple of hundred rounds of Perfect 55 gr fmj to blow for the brass. on sale here for $14 and change for 50..For me cheap is good enough.....
On the other hand, thousands of service rifle match shooters put hundreds of thousands of uncrimped rounds down range every year without problems, including the military marksmanship teams. Military match ammo in not crimped, though it did used to have an asphaltum (pitch) seal, which I understand has been dropped as of the 2012 revamp by ATK.
The deal with crimping is this: If the ammo will undergo very rough handling, as in belt-fed full auto fire, then crimps can prevent jams. If the ammo is dropped on its nose, it can prevent the bullet being seated deeper. Notice, however, that match bullets used for precision sniping do not have crimp cannelures and are not crimped, per the bullet manufacturer's recommendation not to distort match bullets in any way. These are fired in semi-auto sniper rifles as well as bolt action sniper rifles without problems.
Crimping can improved the consistency of bullet pull. In some loads this leads to better ignition consistency and accuracy at shorter range. This is especially true if you use a powder as slow and hard to ignite as H335¹ with a fast, light 55 grain bullet. Crimping has to be tried to find out if it improves accuracy in your gun and loads. However, any distortion of the bullet that occurs during crimping is likely to reduce its ballstic coefficient if it indents the bullet much deeper than rifling does. If, as I've seen in military ball ammo, the crimp has any asymmetry, it unbalances the bullet's spin and causes random bullet drift that gets bigger as the bullet goes down range. This drift is in proportion to the time of flight. Since the time of flight over the first 100 yards gets longer for each subsequent 100 yards due to the bullet slowing down, this drift opens group size by more moa at longer ranges than at short ones. The lesson is that there can be an optimal crimp for each range that is the best compromise between powder ignition and bullet distortion, with the least crimp favoring the bullet and the heaviest crimp favoring the powder.
¹H335 is canister grade WC844. I have directly from a Hodgdon tech that the formulation is unchanged from when it was developed in the 1960's. This earlier spherical powders have deterrent coatings that make them more difficult to ignite than stick powders. In 1989, CCI altered the formulation of their magnum primers specifically to light older process spherical propellants like this. Subsequently, most U.S. makers have done something similar with their magnum primers. So, if you are using CCI primers, you want the #41 primer or at least the #450 in the AR. Both are magnum primers, and I have it directly from CCI that the priming mix and quantity are identical and the hardness of the primer cups is identical. The only difference is the #41 has an altered anvil to reduce it's sensitivity to meet the military H-test sensitivity standard which calls for 50% ignition at 0.154 ft-lbs of firing pin energy, with a standard deviation not to exceed .0308 ft-lbs. The idea is to reduce the chance of a slamfire caused by the floating firing pin, though this is less in the AR design than in the older M1 Garand and M14 designs.
The deal with crimping is this: If the ammo will undergo very rough handling, as in belt-fed full auto fire, then crimps can prevent jams. If the ammo is dropped on its nose, it can prevent the bullet being seated deeper. Notice, however, that match bullets used for precision sniping do not have crimp cannelures and are not crimped, per the bullet manufacturer's recommendation not to distort match bullets in any way. These are fired in semi-auto sniper rifles as well as bolt action sniper rifles without problems.
Crimping can improved the consistency of bullet pull. In some loads this leads to better ignition consistency and accuracy at shorter range. This is especially true if you use a powder as slow and hard to ignite as H335¹ with a fast, light 55 grain bullet. Crimping has to be tried to find out if it improves accuracy in your gun and loads. However, any distortion of the bullet that occurs during crimping is likely to reduce its ballstic coefficient if it indents the bullet much deeper than rifling does. If, as I've seen in military ball ammo, the crimp has any asymmetry, it unbalances the bullet's spin and causes random bullet drift that gets bigger as the bullet goes down range. This drift is in proportion to the time of flight. Since the time of flight over the first 100 yards gets longer for each subsequent 100 yards due to the bullet slowing down, this drift opens group size by more moa at longer ranges than at short ones. The lesson is that there can be an optimal crimp for each range that is the best compromise between powder ignition and bullet distortion, with the least crimp favoring the bullet and the heaviest crimp favoring the powder.
¹H335 is canister grade WC844. I have directly from a Hodgdon tech that the formulation is unchanged from when it was developed in the 1960's. This earlier spherical powders have deterrent coatings that make them more difficult to ignite than stick powders. In 1989, CCI altered the formulation of their magnum primers specifically to light older process spherical propellants like this. Subsequently, most U.S. makers have done something similar with their magnum primers. So, if you are using CCI primers, you want the #41 primer or at least the #450 in the AR. Both are magnum primers, and I have it directly from CCI that the priming mix and quantity are identical and the hardness of the primer cups is identical. The only difference is the #41 has an altered anvil to reduce it's sensitivity to meet the military H-test sensitivity standard which calls for 50% ignition at 0.154 ft-lbs of firing pin energy, with a standard deviation not to exceed .0308 ft-lbs. The idea is to reduce the chance of a slamfire caused by the floating firing pin, though this is less in the AR design than in the older M1 Garand and M14 designs.
I do some reloading for my AR. For my reloading I mostly use Win 223 brass that I've prep'd and I use a brass catcher to recover it while shooting. I've also loaded LC 556 brass after swagging the primer pocket. I load it the exact same way as I do my .223 bolt gun. For some reason people dont often mention H322 for AR's...but it's the only powder I use and find it excellent and accurate with 50 up to 65 grain bullets. I mostly use Fed or Win small rifle primers and bullets depend on what I'm doing. You can get Hornady 55 grain soft points inexpensively, and they're accurate as well as perfect for yotes and small critters. I also use 55 grain ballistic tips from Nosler. I have a load that centers around Sierra's 65 grain Gameking that is very accurate, and is a real thumper on anything you hit with it. Ive never tried it on deer but from I've seen on trees and my log back stop..pallets, etc Im sure it would result in an ethical kill. None of the bullets I use have a cannelure as I've never crimped any rifle bullet. My experience is, it's not needed but again that's just me and my practices. When I hunt I use a 10 round magazine in an AR and have never had a set back issue in my handloads. If you were running 30 round magazines, fired full auto, and bounced around in a HumVee all day maybe it would be a different story but most of us here are not doing anything close to that. The .223 is a very easy and forgiving round to reload, so you'll have fun as just about everything you load will shoot reasonably well.
"...most have a cannelure..." Ignore it altogether. Mind you, match grade bullets, like Sierra MatchKings and Hornady A-Maxes, do not have a cannelure. (only one Sierra .223 bullet does). Crimping really isn't necessary. Especially, for match grade ammo.
However, if you do opt to crimp, use as little as possible. Crimping is not a safety issue. Really only required with heavy recoiling cartridges and in tube mag lever actions.
The only part of loading for any semi-auto that matters is that you must FL resize every time(SB will do), check case lengths and trim, chamfer and deburr as required, and watch the OAL. Loading for semi-auto really isn't a big deal.
However, if you do opt to crimp, use as little as possible. Crimping is not a safety issue. Really only required with heavy recoiling cartridges and in tube mag lever actions.
The only part of loading for any semi-auto that matters is that you must FL resize every time(SB will do), check case lengths and trim, chamfer and deburr as required, and watch the OAL. Loading for semi-auto really isn't a big deal.
Whether you taper crimp, cannelure crimp or simply use seated neck tension, the bullet in different AR's bang into the chamber differently. You can make a few dummy round and let the AR strip the round out of the mag and slam into the chamber. Measure before and after. Another test is measure the last few live rounds in the mag, fire your rounds and stop short of using those measured rounds and measure them to see if the rattling about changed the dimensions. Fire all the rounds but stop short of the last one after it slams into the chamber and mesure that one as well. Never ease a round into a chamber like a bolt gun. Let the ar bolt carrier slam it into the chamber. A comparator helps get closer in the readings as some of those cheap bullets will appear as varying oal as the seater contacts the secants and if there is a slight variance, it will show up in the oal.