New to Me S&W Model 19: How Do I Remove these Grips? (Now With More Weirdness)

T

TunnelRat

New member
Hi all,
Below is an image of my new pride and joy, a S&W Model 19. It's in good shape cosmetically and the trigger is sublime. Forgive my ignorance but I don't know much about the grips you can see pictured below. They are beautiful and I'd like to remove them and put on some junkers so that I can preserve the originals. Does someone know how to remove them. I took out the screw but they're still attached. I imagine it has something to do with that nasty baseplate.

Thanks,
-TR

 
Last edited:
Remove the screws to remove the grips.

As for that grip plate, I dunno. Is there a pin at the bottom of the grip? That may go through the grip plate.
 
Thanks I figured it out. There was some sort of apoxy between the plate and the bottom of the grips that was keeping them from separating. Some gentle prying with a thing screwdriver and it came apart no fuss.
 
I'm certainly no expert... Just wondering if maybe that metal baseplate was someone's do-it-yourself project and maybe it's epoxied on there?...

I haven't seen one before but that doesn't mean much... Just speculating.

Oh... We were both typing at the same time... Never mind.
 
Man, I'd like for the installer of that monstrosity to share his thoughts... sadly, we'll likely never know.

And although the picture doesn't give us a good angle -- that rear sight doesn't look like a Smith & Wesson rig to me.
 
And although the picture doesn't give us a good angle -- that rear sight doesn't look like a Smith & Wesson rig to me.
Click to expand...

Thanks for bringing that up. It doesn't appear to be to me either. It is a nice rear sight and the elevation and windage adjustments are easy and positive. I don't see any identifying mark. One thing that is interesting is the rear sight. The inner edges aren't perfectly vertical. They're at an angle. Sort of like this:

/ | \

With the middle being the front sight. It seems like a decent sight. Should I be concerned?
 
Concerned?
Well, I suppose if you look at the revolver as some manner of a collectible or "investment" then you should have genuine concern, as it's not original. And with the rear sight and the goofy job to the grips, it's suggesting that there may be any number of other things that have been toyed with in one way or another.

As a concern of safety or utility -- I wouldn't go that far. If the sight isn't wonky, rattling or falling off, and you hit to point of aim, I'd say it'll work just fine. From the one pic angle, it kind of looks like a Dan Wesson (revolver) rear sight. Maybe some of the fine minds on here could better identify with some pictures. If it works and it's not screwed to any of the end of it's four ranges, I wouldn't lose sleep over it. To go further, I'd say it's a decent upgrade as the S&W original sight is fine, but it's nothing special. IMO, of course. That sight looks good to me.

Have you got a dash-number or a serial number? We can get an approximate build date with that. Can already tell you that it's pre-1982 as it's got the pinned barrel. Model 19-4 or earlier it must certainly be.

Now this is basic, so forgive me if your experience with S&W revolvers is beyond this basic one...
But you described the trigger as being very good, so ensure that the last owner didn't loosen the strain screw on the mainspring.

This screw is on the front of the grip strap, stocks must be removed to see it. When that screw is untightened, the trigger becomes unbelievably easy, nice, sweet, ridiculous and mindblowing. It's not a real method of doing anything, really, because loosening that screw takes the power directly out of the hammer spring. Unscrew it and the trigger feels phenomenal but the revolver won't reliably discharge primers. It's been used as an old "gun show trick." Loosen the screw and any potential buyer feels some INCREDIBLE! trigger, but the poor revolver won't work right with that screw loose.
 
Now this is basic, so forgive me if your experience with S&W revolvers is beyond this basic one...
Click to expand...

I've owned them before but my experience is basic to be honest.

Here are some more pics of the sight from above:



And then through the rear. I'm a bit discouraged with this. I do think this was a Dan Wesson sight. But it appears that it was filed at an angle. Look at the inside edges. They are at an uneven slant. Damn me for not looking closer in the store:

 
TR,

The rear sight is a Millett 100 series made for the K/L/N S&W. It was a relatively popular sight.
Although it does add to the bulk of the gun with its size, it is has finer adjustments over the Smith factory sight.

I cannot think of any reason for cutting the trapezoid type notch or the skull crusher base plate on the grips at all. Too much 'Call of Duty' maybe?

Not a factory Millett blade IMO. Three choices.
1. You could replace it with a new/used Millett white outline blade sight for 100 bucks + -,
who no longer makes these fine sights, off a bidding site or even just buy a new rear blade 35 -45 bucks to replace that one.
The new blades require a bit of both dexterity and patience to install.

2. Milletts mounting system on the Smith used the factory hole (no gun modifications), so you could round up a factory sight instead if that's what you want.

3. Use as -is and enjoy the fine adjustment capability these quality sights have.

Based on these two modifications, I'm with Sevens - give the whole rig a good going over.
If it were mine, I'd also pull the sideplate off and dis-assemble the lock
or at least take a very close look at both the sear engagement surfaces and the rebound spring and slide
to make sure someone did not take a dremel to the sear notches or cutters to the spring as well.

My take, JT
 
With the middle being the front sight. It seems like a decent sight. Should I be concerned?
Click to expand...

IMHO - probably.

Someone did two "kitchen table" modifications.
One I could overlook, but, two ?


A possible third is that I can't see a trigger stop.
I'd wonder what's under the sideplate.

The first thing I'd look for @ this point would be evidence the sideplate had been removed. If it was pried - which is the wrong way - you should be able to tell right off.
The proper way to remove the sideplate is to gently tap the frame on the other side and work it loose.

Once inside, check for any signs of metal having been removed.
A very small amount of stoning will produce an even more amazing trigger.
The use of a Dremel or any other power tool will produce a fairly healthy gunsmith bill to replace parts.
A good professional will hand work the parts.
A hack that "knows better" will grab a Dremel and destroy.

The grips should be able to be salvaged for use, but, as far as being faithful to the gun......
The lack of a speed loader cutout indicates they are from a 19-3.
The lack of a trigger stop would seem to indicate a later version though.
IIRC, the 19-4 is when S&W added a cutout for a speed loaded. I could be wrong there though....
I'm not sure when S&W quit putting a trigger stop on the 19.
Anyhow - it doesn't matter at this point.

You should be able to sand off the epoxy on the bottoms of the grips and revarnish them.
(Be thankful they were put on with epoxy. Real "head knockers" were screwed on.)

I would leave them (the grips) on there and not swap them out.
That's just me though. There's a very small minority of us that won't use anything other than the original S&W oversized target grips on a M19.
 
Last edited:
Someone did two "kitchen table" modifications.
One I could overlook, but, two ?
Click to expand...

I see a possible third one. The rear sight blade notch. All the Millets I have ever seen have had square notches. So,we have the baseplate on the grips, an after market rear sight, and (I believe) a modification to the rear sight notch.

The baseplate can only have two possible functions, to protect the bottom of the grip from something, or as a way to add some weight to "adjust" the balance of the gun in the hand. Only the previous owner could tell us just why he did that (or had it done). The actual fit looks pretty good, and that argues against it being a "kitchen table" hack job. Also the Millet rear sight, which again says something against it being a "bubba" job.

I'm going to offer a little different advice. DON"T remove the sideplate. Instead, take a close look around the edges, looking for any scratches or burrs. If it looks good, you can relax a bit.

There is a right way, and several wrong ways to remove and reinstall the sideplate. Its good advice to take it down, check the insides for damage, "bubba" trigger jobs, etc., BUT if you don't know what you are doing (have some training and experience) its better you don't do it. A single slip or doing something wrong can damage the finish, and even the fit. Also, a fumble at the wrong point, with the sideplate off and you have a jumble of parts you have to put back in the frame. And I'm guessing you aren't experienced with that, either.
You say the trigger is "sublime". Original triggers are good, and can be "sublime". And a trigger job done by someone who knew what they are doing is also.

If the gun is working properly (check out the sticky thread for used revolvers as to things to look at), the only reason to remove the sideplate would be if you wanted to, or you were told you had to, and believed it.

One thing to look at, is the forcing cone. The rear end of the barrel where it stick out of the frame. Clean it thoroughly, and under a good light (and maybe a magnifier) look for cracks. There shouldn't be any. If you see something like that, don't shoot it, and have it checked by a professional, one who knows what they are doing with S&W revolvers.

Also, since you have the grips off, look at the strain screw. This is on the front of the gripframe, and puts tension (strain) on the mainspring. The head of the screw ought to be approximately flush with the frame. If it is screwed significantly more in, or out, you might have issues. Some people will adjust the screw as a way of changing the trigger pull, but it can lead to erratic ignition.

If I were you, and assuming the gun checks out good (locks up properly, etc) I'd get a set of Pachmayr grips, which ever style you like best, and shoot it. The rubber grips don't look "pretty", and they aren't to everyone's taste, but for me they work very well, and are better in my hands, for shooting, than the factory wood.

I would also recommend not shooting much of the 125gr JHP ammo. Any other bullet weight is fine. There is a long history of model 19s and too much of the 125gr JHP load having issues (including cracked forcing cones).

Looks like a really nice gun, with some modifications done fairly well. We may not agree on if they were a good idea, but they appear to have been done well, mechanically. That, and the overall finish condition argue that the previous owner wasn't a hackmeister. Not conclusive, of course, but if the gun is working properly, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

Enjoy!
 
I have a Millett rear sight on one of my handguns, it's a fine sight. I will never understand why Millett elected to get out of the business of making adjustable sights. It's not like there's a lot out there to choose from, and they made a fine one.
 
I think I would very gently but securely clamp the gun in a vise, probably removing the cylinder first and take a very fine blade on a hack saw and using that plate for a guide slice/saw the plate off. Keep a the blade angled slightly towards plate and minimal wood should be lost. After that you can refinish the bottom of the grips, that Goncalo Alves wood is very, very hard. Sorry I missed your note about prying them off, now you can put a Hogue Nylon Monogrip on that jewel.;)
 
Last edited:
Thanks I figured it out. There was some sort of apoxy between the plate and the bottom of the grips that was keeping them from separating. Some gentle prying with a thing screwdriver and it came apart no fuss.
Click to expand...

Ick.
 
Someone made an ersatz "Buckhorn" out of the Millett rear sight. Buckhorns were briefly popular in USPSA circles for a few years on the mid 80's.

I can also tell you to do that mod they had to disassemble the rear sight, remove the existing garish white line recesses that Millet molded in, then re-serrated the rear with a 50-line checkering file..if they had only stopped there.

Yeah, Millett rears are a barrel of monkeys to disassemble and reassemble.
 
They are beautiful and I'd like to remove them and put on some junkers so that I can preserve the originals.
Click to expand...
What's so special about those grips that they need to be preserved??? I take mine off and toss them in the parts box. S&W's haven't come with good grips since the old Coke bottles.
 
The more that I look at the picture of the rear sight from the back (not from the top), it looks to me like the notch, weird shape and all, is actually not centered in the big block of black rear sight.

That would frustrate me to the very ends of the Earth.

I hope it's just photo trickery. If that hacked notch is not truly in the center of the mass, I'd yank that rear sight off and smash it with a brick just out of principle.

The revolver is probably going to be a fine gun and serve you very well, but yeah, I'm thinking that rear sight needs to be replaced.

As for the original stocks, I think if we polled all the gun cranks, they don't rate very high for comfort and shootability. But I also very much like the look of them. And as I'm constantly (CONSTANTLY!) digging through grips and stocks at gun shows, original stocks like that if in mint or near shape go for a solid $50 and up at most shows. If they were new old stock, or perhaps pulled from the gun when new and preserved, most any dealer at a gun show would mark them $60-$75. No matter how anyone believes they "feel" or "shoot", original Smith & Wesson wood isn't dropping in price. (like everything, it seems...)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top