New to me 44mag reloading

[Metal god]

Hey guys , just went and shot my new to me S&W 629 with some of my reloads . This will be the first time I ever fired a new to me gun with out factory rounds before trying reloads .

FWIW my loads are

Same bullet for each 240gr .429 diameter PLFP

Unique charges are 8gr through 9.5gr

Win 231 charges are 7gr though 9gr

Standard primers

44mag cases ( mixed )

Seated to crimp groove with heavy-ish collet style crimp COAL 1.545

Here are some random primer strikes . I dumped them all into a bag so I don't know which cases had which charge but they all pretty much looked like these

Those look fine to me and all seemed good but the primers were pushed out a tad after firing , not sure how normal that is but don't remember my 357 loads doing that . I was unable to adjust the rear sight low enough to hit POA at 40-ish feet , not sure why that is . The one other thing that surprised me a little was before ever test firing the gun I replaced the hammer spring and trigger return springs . Also polished up the internals , great trigger pull now compared to before . The thing that surprised me was how deep the hammer strikes are . I was anticipating the possibility of light strikes but it appears I'm more then gtg . Double action is about 8.5lbs and single is 2.5lbs . Not sure if it matters but this is an older 629 with the pinned barrel and firing pin on the hammer .

It came with a box of what I thought were old factory Remington fully loaded cartridges . How ever after closer look the box was originally marked 50 primed cases and says 50 empty primed cases and does not show any bullet weight . This leads me to think they are reloads .

Well I was hesitant but I did fire a few and holy cow were they thunderous . Not sure I ever fired a handgun with that much recoil before . FWIW they ejected from the cylinder easily pretty much just fell out .

Not sure If I'll be shooting those anymore but here are those fired cases . I see some cratering on some of those .

I think I'm happy with my reloads but those other reloads make me a little scared

 

[Unclenick]

Primers normally pop out against the breech face when a gun is fired. When the primers eject standing proud of the case head, it's because the pressure was too low to reseat them. You are very safe territory with these. That doesn't mean you can pile the Unique on too fast, as quick powder additions can start raising pressure unexpectedly, but I am guessing that if you work toward the Alliant maximum of 11 grains for a 250-grain hard cast bullet, you will still be doing fine if you don't develop leading issues.

 

[Metal god]

Yes next time I go out I’ll shoot some through a chronograph and see where I’m at. I knew I was not pushing these as far as max charge but that 9 grains and 9.5 grains of unique was about the same feel as my semi hot 357 loads . Regardless these bullets are plated so Ill need to stop around 1200fps from a 5.5” barrel .

 

[edfardos]

those look great.

possibly bump up to mag primer

dont use winchester primers in RP cases

i use cfe-pistol in my light 44mags, very similar to unique

 

[Metal god]

Why no Winchester primers in RP cases ? Since I have a few thousand win LP primers those will be my magnum primers I use .

Edit : fwiw brass is hard to come by right now ( hmm you don’t saaay ? ) . When I can I’ll be buying some all same headstamp cases , sounds like I should avoid Remington brass ? There's one place I saw that had new cases for sale but the only description was “imported” with out the from where . I'm using mixed brass right now and those of you that know me know I hate mixed handgun brass . 44mag is no exception, the case “necks” on the ppu cases I have are .004 thinner then just about all other bands in my mixed lot of cases . That’s .008 less bullet hold when adding both sides of the case then the other cases . When seating a bullet in those cases there is zero feel/pressure felt and they can be pushed deeper with just a very light touch of your finger to the tip of the bullet ( virtually no bullet hold ) . To be honest I don’t know how they were loaded in the first place unless they were loaded with a .431 diameter bullet it would have to be at least that fat to even have any reasonable bullet hold ,

Anyways I hate!!!!!! Using mixed handgun brass . So far I’ve had to throw out 10 of the 300 cases I have because of this and that’s only out of the 100 I’ve loaded . This leads me to believe and/or anticipate I’ll be throwing out at least another 10 or 20 as I load the rest of the 200 I have left . I’m so glad I bought 1k Fed 357 cases at the gun show a couple years ago when I started loading 357 . Just writing about this agitates the hell out of me , did I mention I HATE mixed handgun brass !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[zxcvbob]

The primers backing out of the case is normal. Usually it gets reseated when the case head slams into the breech face. If it's not causing a problem (like tying up the gun so the cylinder won't turn) don't worry about it. Your load data kinda sounds like .44 Special data. Nothing wrong with that; it shouldn't be light enough nor heavy enough to cause problems (you can get in trouble at both ends of the spectrum)

If mixed brass is causing a problem, that means you didn't buy enough of it. Buy a *bunch* and then sort it by headstamp.

 

[Metal god]

If mixed brass is causing a problem, that means you didn't buy enough of it.

HaHa I like that answer . I once bought 1k mixed 223 cases and ended up with 14+ different head stamps . That was after sorting about 1/3 of them . I ended up pouring them all back together and put them aside . Totally not worth separating them to end up with maybe 150 of one head stamp and less then a 100 each of the rest . The only mixed head stamp rifle cases I'll use is LC-mixed years . I pretty much stay away from everything else if mixed , although I likely have 8k+ mixed 223 cases just sitting in buckets .

As for the primers backing out , I knew they do that . I was surprised these did on what should be hot enough loads . Yes they are light 44mag loads but they are above max 44spl loads . Does this mean "all" 44spl primers back out ??? IDK just seems odd to me I need full throttle 44mag loads to flatten/push my primers back in

 

[Waldog]

Also, you can shoot 44 Special rounds through your 44mag to slowly get used to the recoil. 44 Special is a rather tame round and perfect for getting used to your new hand canon. I speak from experience.

 

[Metal god]

Also, you can shoot 44 Special rounds through your 44mag to slowly get used to the recoil.

Yep understood but if I do shoot 44spl pressures it will be in 44mag cases . I do the same with 357 . No 38spl cases are used for that gun . I guess I shouldn't say none or never but generally 357 cases will be used in my 357 guns . I do have a small 38 which I load for so I do have some 38spl cases but not many compared to other cartridge's I load .

As for recoil it's not a problem in general . I'm a big guy with big hands and I actually like some recoil . I have a few 22 pistols that I don't enjoy shooting much do to the lack of recoil . I was just surprised on those first couple how much recoil there was in those loads . I had shot a 44mag maybe 30 years ago and never thought they had much of a kick . I may have overly expected more recoil then there was at the time and it was the opposite this time . I also think those loads that came with the gun are hot loads . It's my understanding they are 30-ish years old and were not stored all that time in optimal conditions . Powder might be burning a bit faster then it's original burn rate . Maybe I'd shoot them in a Ruger but I think this S&W has seen enough of them .

Maybe I'll pull a couple and see what the bullet and charge weights are . Then "maybe" shoot a couple more over my chrono . All that data may tell me if they are safe or not but the cratered primers seem to indicate they are on the edge of safe at minimum .

 

[edfardos]

winchester primers crack in rp cases. winchester primers are a bit more brittle, and RP cases have very little support around the edge. the combo makes for cracks which pit your breach face.

my observation is only with max loads however... h110. not Unique.

 

[totaldla]

winchester primers crack in rp cases. winchester primers are a bit more brittle, and RP cases have very little support around the edge. the combo makes for cracks which pit your breach face.

my observation is only with max loads however... h110. not Unique.

I just happen to have a picture of what you described. At the time, I did not link it to WLP and Rem brass - I just switched to CCI350.

 

[Unclenick]

Interesting observation, and new to me. Were the primers that cracked nickel-plated or brass in color?

 

[44 AMP]

Never had, or heard of any issues with Win primers in any cases. This is new to me, but I haven't bought any new components in several years so I can't say what kind of crap, or quality, has been produced recently.

9gr Unique gets you into the 900fps range with a 240gr bullet. They are not hot loads by any means. Your fired primers are fine, and within the normal, expected range of appearance for loads at that level.

Those unknown loads that gave you huge recoil and blast are likely at the top end level, but since the cases "just about fell out" you aren't at dangerous pressure levels. You'll know, if you ever get there, because the cases will stick in the chambers. My experience is that cases will stick in the chamber before you get to actually dangerous levels. And, that cases that stick in the chamber of gun A might not do so in gun B, with that exact same load.

If cases stick in the chamber, that load combination is too hot to use in that gun. No matter what the book or internet load data says.

 

[Metal god]

Interesting observation, and new to me.

Never had, or heard of any issues with Win primers in any cases. This is new to me

Well we seem to be in a bit of a pickle . I was already to except the issue between Win primers and R.P. cases but now that two of the most experienced members here have questions . I think I'd like more info on this issue . Only because I came across certified once fired R.P. 44mag brass instock last night . They also have Starline NIB as well but the Starline is triple the cost of the once fired Remington brass .

Oh well just went to check the prices and the R.P. brass is sold out , they want $275 for 500 new Starline cases . How out of line is that price ? It sure seems like a lot but if it's only 20% or so over normal prices I'll get 500 of them .

P.S. I'd still like more clarification on the primer brass issue

 

[recoil junky]

1. Mixed brass is a non issue in revolvers, I doubt you can shoot the difference, I know I can't. I run WW, Federal, RP, Speer and Starline.

2. Primer brand is also a non issue with mild loads. If you use magnum primers, just back off a bit and start over.

3. I've never had a WW primer "crack" when used in the aforementioned brass when using H110 even in Ruger only loads.

If you are cracking primers in H110 loads there are likely other issues.

RJ

 

[chris downs]

I do the same with 357 . No 38spl cases are used for that gun.

Why? I am curious.

 

[Metal god]

First , thanks UN for the value answer .

Only shooting 357 cases in 357 guns ? Couple reasons 1) I like minimizing the components I work with so if I only load 357 cases it’s just easier , 2) I like stainless because I don’t clean as much as one should . Only using 357 cases will help avoid fouling build up that may restrict 357 length cases from chambering if I shoot a bunch of 38’s in it . 3) This is a general rule for me not a law and really goes to reloads rather then factory loads .

1. Mixed brass is a non issue in revolvers, I doubt you can shoot the difference, I know I can't. I run WW, Federal, RP, Speer and Starline.

My issue with mixed brass has less to do about type of firearm and pretty much everything to do with bullet hold and crimp . Those PPU cases I have give me zero bullet hold resulting in the crimp being the only thing holding the bullet in place . My experience tells me that's not the best way to load magnum cartridges . This leads me to think your statement that mixed brass is a non-issue is false .

I'll add that the brands you named do seem to be a non-issue if mixed but that doesn't mean all can be mixed . I have to at minimum separate my 45acp brass between thin walled and thick walled cases for the same reason-ish . With out going into detail . The inconsistencies I feel when loading unsorted mixed cases bothers me A LOT . I load on a single stage or turret press and I can feel everything because I'm doing one operation at a time . I'd think a progressive press would not allow you to feel how inconsistent your bullet hold and crimps are do to them completing all stages in the same pull. This brings up my theory of If I'm going to be looking at every headstamp to separate in any way , might as well separate them into the most consistent lots you can .

 

[Nick_C_S]

Why? I am curious. (Regarding not shooting 38 Spl ammo in a 357 gun.)

Not to speak for Metal God, but the reason I don't is because I don't like the crud that builds up in the gap left between the 38 case mouth and the end of the charge hole (beginning of the throat). This crud is exacerbated with lead ammo (mostly the lube, not the lead) and is difficult to remove when cleaning. Not to mention, if the build up is sufficient, charging the cylinder with 357 ammo can be interfering. It's a situation I'd rather avoid.

I have the good fortune of having both 357 and 38 revolvers. If I want to shoot 38 ammo, I use my 38 gun.

 

[rclark]

Why? I am curious.

As above, there is absolutely no need to use .44 Special or .38 Special cases when reloading for .357 or .44 Magnum. As a reloader, you can load from low, say 600fps to high say 1500fps (or whatever top in may be). That is what is nice about reloading. Choices. Also you don't have to reset the reloading dies for .38s or .44 Special either. Now, since I have .44 Special revolvers, I bought an extra set of dies where one is set for .44 Mag, the other for .44 Special. I have no .38 special revolvers, so don't load that cartridge. I try to use the cartridge the gun was designed for. I have one exception which is a .327 Single Seven. I only load .32 H&R magnum cartridges so the Single Seven just has to be content with shooting them.



Now 44Mag and Unique. I've loaded from 7.5gr to 11.0gr under 240g SWC, but prefer 10.0gr. I got 1100fps out of a 6 1/2" barrel with this over chronograph. Basically subsonic, not hard to handle, yet you know you aren't in .44 Special territory any more.

your fired primers are fine, and within the normal, expected range of appearance for loads at that level.

Concur

 

[Metal god]

Now, since I have .44 Special revolvers, I bought an extra set of dies where one is set for .44 Mag, the other for .44 Special.

I did the same thing with 38spl and 357mag . It's not likely I'll ever buy a 44spl , the only reason I have a 38spl is for pocket carry . I have a Ruger LCR 38 for that and although I don't shoot it much or even load 38 much . I do load 357 quite a bit and it's worth it to me to spend an extra $100 to never need to adjust my dies .