New to long range rifle... HELP

C

compglock17

New member
Ok, I'm good on pistol craft and have carbine type rifle down out to 100+ yrds with a true zero red dot. I am, however, totally lost when you slap a mil-dot on a bolt gun and start moving beyond 100 yrds. I have varmint hunted for years with my model 70 22-250, but not much past 100. I know that gun/caliber is capable way beyond that. Also, just started reloading rifle and want to take advantage of the possibilities of a hand load in a precision rifle. I understand that mastery of the long range rifle takes years of practice, I know it’s taken me years to attain the level of proficiency I have with pistol and carbine. So, I know there are precision rifle experts on here, and I know you don’t have the time or space to pass on all your knowledge, but, can you point this newbie in the right direction to start along the path? Any and all info is greatly appreciated!
 
There is a lot more to it then that.

I'd recommend doing a "google" for David Tubbs, get some of his Videos and or books.

Taking a class is better.

Remember one thing that I preach constantly. Its not the equipment, its the shooter. Regardless of what equipment, its all about the fundamentals of marksmanship.

As you read these forums, you see all kinds of post of itty bitty sub minute groups. When you get on the firing line, you'll see very few cleaned targets.

For example, take 1000 ard matches. The X-10 ring is 20 inches across, (2 MOA) but you dont see many of these sub minute group rifles cleaning the targets.

Its about the shooter.

Get any good rifle that will shoot 2 MOA, then spend the rest of your funds on ammo down range. When you can get to where you can shoot 2 MOA at a 1000 yards, then worry about gimmicks.
 
Sound advice Kraig! I am a true believer in the fundamentals first and foremost! I have a strong understanding of trigger manipulation, recoil management, ect., its the fine points relating to a scoped, long range rifle that escapes me. I will take your advice and seek professional help :D .
 
Rifle shooting skills begin even at close range. Follow kraigwy's advice about David Tubb's material and when you want to employ his recommendations with inexpensive practice an accurate .22 can provide valuable input. A high quality .22 at 100 yards can simulate center fire at greater distances. High power competitors regularly shoot gallery.22 in the off season to maintain their skills.
A good friend claimed that .22s were for old men and kids. Several sessions at three position smallbore shooting convinced him that some of the expertise need for long range was learnable from small bore.
 
I recomend paying up for someone to instruct you when you can. No use in stating with bad habbits then having to work to stop those habbits later on it. Learn it properly the first time.

It is not just about putting rounds down range. It is about putting rounds down range doing everything correctly.
 
Lots and lots of info on precision rifle loads in the hand loading forum.

Do a search for concentricity, neck turning, weighing cases, seating depth, lapua, norma.... endless hours of reading content.
 
You're not saying how far out you're planing on shooting. If we're talking serious distance (600+), start reading Zak Smith's articles on guns, calibers and optics. My suggestion for starting equipment, get one decent scope, Nightforce or similar, and grow your rifles with your shooting ability. At half a mile out a Leupold II 3-9x40 is just not going to cut it.
 
training should be top on your list for long range shooting. videos are nice, but you will learn more from someone in person. Look up project appleseed at www.appleseedinfo.org. Find an event near you. The weekend clinic is fired at 25 meters, typically with a .22lr. About 85% of what you need to know about shooting distance can be learned at 25m.
 
Thank you all for our responses and all the info. I fear I have miss lead you all as far as what I am looking for and where I'm at as far as fundamental skill is concerned. I understand and use natural point of aim, proper trigger management, shooting form different positions and basic rifle craft/operation. Unfortunately, all my experience has been with cabine/M4 type patrol rifles using little to no magnification red dots or iron sights. My biggest hang up is when a mil-dot scope is used and people start saying things like "dope", "minute of angle" , "ballistic coefficient" ect. I have a basic understanding of these terms, but it gets foggy as to how they apply to scoped rifle fire. I find I am very lacking in this area and would like to become a better, well rounded shooter and get the most out of my bolt guns. I have spoken to some of the SWAT snipers I know but have been less than impressed. If you could see the annual sniper qualification in my state, you'd know why! (I can and have passed the qualification with my AR and a zero power red dot!) So, I figured I would ask the experts here, and have not been disappointed! I will have to get into a class and/or hook up with some scoped rifle shooters in my area to get me started! Thanks again guys!
 
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Methinks, you're overthinking it a bit, for now.
The "terms" you're referring to relate mostly to external ballistics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_ballistics

Here's a better one:
http://www.longrangepursuit.com/ballistics

In the short range shooting you've been doing, the bullet's flight time to the target is so short, that there is minimal- almost negligible- time for external factors (such as wind) to affect the bullet's trajectory.

When you start sending bullets past a couple of hundred yards, the effect of these external "influences" on trajectory increase...some, more or less linear, others- exponentially with distance to the target.

Some bullets- based on design, shape, and weight, "cheat" these external influences better than others. Every bullet is assigned a ballistic coefficient- "BC" as you referred to it. This gets into some pretty involved and interesting physics and math, which you can choose to ignore. The main thing to take away from it is that the higher the BC, the better the bullet is suited for long range. Just go to the manufacturer's website, and look up the bullet...it will tell you it's ballistic coefficient.

Read up on external ballistics. It's about having a basic understanding of this- and A LOT of trigger time and experience- that tells you how many clicks of the turrets are going to put the bullet on your point of aim.
 
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You'll find that shooting out to 300 yards or so is mostly a no-brainer with a 22-250. Good handloads from that gun will require almost no holdover at 300. "Point and shoot". Cross-wind can be an issue but it's generally not a big deal at 300 or less and 22-250 speeds.


If you already exhibit good trigger control and good technique, the hardest part to learn is wind. There's no magic cure the way there is for bullet drop, if you had a known, consistent, perfect wind, there would be, but that's a rare, rare thing. Reading the wind takes years to "master".

Distance is easy, if it's known. Wind is your issue.

I'd suggest doing some shooting at 300 or so and then move out slowly from there.

Out to 450 or so, it's not tooooo tough. It gets a lot harder beyond that.
 
The best book for the layman regarding ballistics for long range I've found is

APPLIED BALLISTICS FOR LONG RANGE SHOOTING by Bryan Litz, Berger bullets.

Mr Litz knows his stuff. The book also comes with Berger's ballistic program.

It's well written and easy to understand.
 
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