New to Black Powder.........
- Thread starter Splat!!
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Greyhawk
I'll be glad to help you,is the GreyHawk an in-line,or a sidehammer gun? If it is a sidehammer is it a flintlock,or percussion gun. I'm fimiliar with TC firearms,but not the Greyhawk.Give us a little more info,so we will know what you need to use; powder, bullets, or balls.
I'll be glad to help you,is the GreyHawk an in-line,or a sidehammer gun? If it is a sidehammer is it a flintlock,or percussion gun. I'm fimiliar with TC firearms,but not the Greyhawk.Give us a little more info,so we will know what you need to use; powder, bullets, or balls.
Grey Hawk is a sidelock percussion....
The T/C Grey Hawk is a sidelock percussion muzzleloader with black synthetic stock and stainless barrel. It has a 1 in 48 twist and only came in .50 cal, I believe. It's a short barrel, like a Hawken, and light enough to be carried all day. I've only seen one but it was fairly popular for a while. I do not recall what cap it used, but it was probably a #11.
The T/C Grey Hawk is a sidelock percussion muzzleloader with black synthetic stock and stainless barrel. It has a 1 in 48 twist and only came in .50 cal, I believe. It's a short barrel, like a Hawken, and light enough to be carried all day. I've only seen one but it was fairly popular for a while. I do not recall what cap it used, but it was probably a #11.
Getting Started
There is alot of choices in powders, and bullets, I'll give you the items that I started with. You will need a container of "RS" Pyrodex, a box of 50 cal. Maxi-ball, I like the 320 grain, and a small container of #11 magnum caps, a tube of bore butter, some cleaning patches, a 50 caliber cleaning jag, a 50 caliber bronze brush, a pack of 50 caliber felt wads that is saturated with borebutter.Be sure the cleaning jag, and the brush will screw into your ramrod, 10-32 thread. If you decide you like this sport you will need a rangerod, it is just a heavier duty rod to use loading and cleaning your rifle, it is longer with a handle and easier to use, and will last longer.You might want to shoot a round ball insted of a conical bullet, if so, you will not need the felt wads, instead you will need some cloth patches to place around the round balls,(different from a cleaning patch) cut to size just for this purpose.Someone at the gunshop where you purchase these items can help.Get all these items together then we can talk about loading and shooting.
There is alot of choices in powders, and bullets, I'll give you the items that I started with. You will need a container of "RS" Pyrodex, a box of 50 cal. Maxi-ball, I like the 320 grain, and a small container of #11 magnum caps, a tube of bore butter, some cleaning patches, a 50 caliber cleaning jag, a 50 caliber bronze brush, a pack of 50 caliber felt wads that is saturated with borebutter.Be sure the cleaning jag, and the brush will screw into your ramrod, 10-32 thread. If you decide you like this sport you will need a rangerod, it is just a heavier duty rod to use loading and cleaning your rifle, it is longer with a handle and easier to use, and will last longer.You might want to shoot a round ball insted of a conical bullet, if so, you will not need the felt wads, instead you will need some cloth patches to place around the round balls,(different from a cleaning patch) cut to size just for this purpose.Someone at the gunshop where you purchase these items can help.Get all these items together then we can talk about loading and shooting.
You'll need:
1. Powder measure to measure the powder charge.
2. Flask to dispense powder into the measure, so not to dispense from the powder can.
3. Capper to help apply caps without using your fingers.
4. Nipple wrench to be able to remove the nipple for cleaning it.
5. Short starter to help get the patched round ball started down the muzzle.
6. Rod accessories:
a. cleaning jag to help grip a cleaning patch for wiping & cleaning.
b. patch worm or patch puller to grab and pull stuck patches out of the bottom of the barrel, (without needing to remove the breechplug).
c. fouling scraper sometimes comes in handy to clean the barrel breech, not really necessary if your rifle has a removable breechplug for cleaning.
d. cleaning brush for your caliber for removing stubborn deposits.
7. Nipple pick to clear the nipple of debris.
8. Bore Butter or Wonderlube to lubricate patches for loading, and the barrel after cleaning and to help prevent rust.
9. Patches, .015 thickness, pre-lubed or saturate them with Bore Butter yourself.
10. Balls, .490 diameter
11. Powder
12. #11 Percussion caps
13. BP cleaning solvent - will help to clean the gun without using water, and is very helpful if using Pyrodex.
14. Powder
15. BP Cleaning rod or kit, it's longer and has a handle for easier cleaning without using the short ramrod.
16. Ramrod - I recommend buying a wooden dowel nearly as thick as the bore caliber at a hardware store for about $1. Drill a hole in a ball, a hunk of plastic or piece of wood to make a handle for it and this will help to make ramming the bullet or ball down the barrel much easier by giving better leverage. Mine are 7/16 th's in diameter and have never broke.
For a .50 caliber percussion gun, usually the common starting point for working up an accurate load is to use the .490 balls and a lubricated patch with a thickness of .015.
There are other diameter balls like .495, and other patch thicknesses, like .005 (too thin), .010, .018 (blue stripe pillow ticking), .020 (maybe too thick).
The recommended starting powder load is the same number as the caliber of the barrel, 50 grains by volume.
If buying .495 balls, start with a .010 patch or loading may be difficult.
Did you ever imagine that this could get so expensive?
1. Powder measure to measure the powder charge.
2. Flask to dispense powder into the measure, so not to dispense from the powder can.
3. Capper to help apply caps without using your fingers.
4. Nipple wrench to be able to remove the nipple for cleaning it.
5. Short starter to help get the patched round ball started down the muzzle.
6. Rod accessories:
a. cleaning jag to help grip a cleaning patch for wiping & cleaning.
b. patch worm or patch puller to grab and pull stuck patches out of the bottom of the barrel, (without needing to remove the breechplug).
c. fouling scraper sometimes comes in handy to clean the barrel breech, not really necessary if your rifle has a removable breechplug for cleaning.
d. cleaning brush for your caliber for removing stubborn deposits.
7. Nipple pick to clear the nipple of debris.
8. Bore Butter or Wonderlube to lubricate patches for loading, and the barrel after cleaning and to help prevent rust.
9. Patches, .015 thickness, pre-lubed or saturate them with Bore Butter yourself.
10. Balls, .490 diameter
11. Powder
12. #11 Percussion caps
13. BP cleaning solvent - will help to clean the gun without using water, and is very helpful if using Pyrodex.
14. Powder
15. BP Cleaning rod or kit, it's longer and has a handle for easier cleaning without using the short ramrod.
16. Ramrod - I recommend buying a wooden dowel nearly as thick as the bore caliber at a hardware store for about $1. Drill a hole in a ball, a hunk of plastic or piece of wood to make a handle for it and this will help to make ramming the bullet or ball down the barrel much easier by giving better leverage. Mine are 7/16 th's in diameter and have never broke.
For a .50 caliber percussion gun, usually the common starting point for working up an accurate load is to use the .490 balls and a lubricated patch with a thickness of .015.
There are other diameter balls like .495, and other patch thicknesses, like .005 (too thin), .010, .018 (blue stripe pillow ticking), .020 (maybe too thick).
The recommended starting powder load is the same number as the caliber of the barrel, 50 grains by volume.
If buying .495 balls, start with a .010 patch or loading may be difficult.
Did you ever imagine that this could get so expensive?
Last edited:
Wild Bill Bucks
New member
Splat,
Since you are relatively new to the forum, I suggest that you go to the search, and read the postings that have been made.
Most all of the questions you will be asking, have already been answered for you there.
Muzzleloaders are lots of fun, but can turn into an expensive proposition if you start by trial and error. Read up on them before attempting to go out and shoot (I know, you want to go shoot the new toy) but you will be much smarter to read up about them before you go.
If you bought the rifle from someone else, he may already know the best load for your rifle, and can save you a lot of experimentation. If you bought the rifle from a dealer, then reading the posts from the forum will definetly help you understand exactly what you have gotten into.
Hope this helps.
Since you are relatively new to the forum, I suggest that you go to the search, and read the postings that have been made.
Most all of the questions you will be asking, have already been answered for you there.
Muzzleloaders are lots of fun, but can turn into an expensive proposition if you start by trial and error. Read up on them before attempting to go out and shoot (I know, you want to go shoot the new toy) but you will be much smarter to read up about them before you go.
If you bought the rifle from someone else, he may already know the best load for your rifle, and can save you a lot of experimentation. If you bought the rifle from a dealer, then reading the posts from the forum will definetly help you understand exactly what you have gotten into.
Hope this helps.
Grey Hawk information
I have a Grey Hawk but it's a .54 caliber and uses a musket cap instead of a #11 cap but I can still give you some first-hand advice. I would suggest using Pyrodex Select RS powder rather than black powder for two reasons. First of all, it doesn't foul anywhere near as much as regular black powder so there's hardly any swabbing necessary during shooting sessions. I've fired over 50 rounds in one session and the bullets go down the barrel just as easily at the end of the shoot as the first one did. I've also tried several different bullets and none has worked as well as the Thompson Center Maxi's and Maxi Hunters. Each gun is an individual so what works or doesn't work in mine may work or not work in yours. The second thing about Pyrodex is that, at least in my rifle, it's more accurate. I cut the size of my best black powder group in half by switching to Pyrodex.
Start working up a load by getting a good loading manual. I use the Lyman Black Powder Handbook & Loading Manual. It has just about everything you need to know about black powder loads in it. For your rifle (.50 cal., 24" bbl, 1-48 twist), the book shows loads from 40 grains of powder to 120 grains for the round ball and Pyrodex RS. Just giving a quick glance at the book, it uses a starting load of 40 grains for all loads with a maximum load of 120 grains. What I would suggest is that you, after consulting you own loading manual, start at the low recommended load and shoot five rounds. Then go up 10 grains and shoot five more rounds. Use a separate target for each five-shot string and mark each target with what load it was shot with. Keep going up in ten-grain increments but don't ever go over the maximum recommended load. You should find that your groups will start out kind of spread out and then tighten up at or near the load that your particular rifle likes to digest. I would suggest shooting at no more than 50 yards to pattern these loads. Once you are through shooting, lay all the targets out side-by-side and you should see how the different loads effect the accuracy. Pick the best load and go with it. If you don't get a good group, you'll have to try something different, like a different powder or a different bullet. Experiment until you get a good group with the bullet you are shooting.
As far as what equipment to buy, go to a good black powder shooting supply store in your area and talk with someone who actually shoots black powder. One suggestion from another advice-giver was to get a field rod. Good advice! They are longer and heavier and make the loading job much easier at the range. Once you have the range rod with the appropriate tip(s) for loading, you will need a bullet puller, a patch puller (worm), powder measure, short starter and greased patches if you are shooting round balls. The salesman at the store can help you with that. You also might ask about dedicated black powder shoots in your area. Go to one and you'll have plenty of help the first time you shoot.
BTW, my .54 uses 110 grains of RS to push a T/C 435 gr. Maxi-Hunter out the barrel. When I was working up that load (which is near maximum), I found out that the rifle kicks like a mule! My shoulder was black, blue and yellow for over a week. Good luck on yours.
I have a Grey Hawk but it's a .54 caliber and uses a musket cap instead of a #11 cap but I can still give you some first-hand advice. I would suggest using Pyrodex Select RS powder rather than black powder for two reasons. First of all, it doesn't foul anywhere near as much as regular black powder so there's hardly any swabbing necessary during shooting sessions. I've fired over 50 rounds in one session and the bullets go down the barrel just as easily at the end of the shoot as the first one did. I've also tried several different bullets and none has worked as well as the Thompson Center Maxi's and Maxi Hunters. Each gun is an individual so what works or doesn't work in mine may work or not work in yours. The second thing about Pyrodex is that, at least in my rifle, it's more accurate. I cut the size of my best black powder group in half by switching to Pyrodex.
Start working up a load by getting a good loading manual. I use the Lyman Black Powder Handbook & Loading Manual. It has just about everything you need to know about black powder loads in it. For your rifle (.50 cal., 24" bbl, 1-48 twist), the book shows loads from 40 grains of powder to 120 grains for the round ball and Pyrodex RS. Just giving a quick glance at the book, it uses a starting load of 40 grains for all loads with a maximum load of 120 grains. What I would suggest is that you, after consulting you own loading manual, start at the low recommended load and shoot five rounds. Then go up 10 grains and shoot five more rounds. Use a separate target for each five-shot string and mark each target with what load it was shot with. Keep going up in ten-grain increments but don't ever go over the maximum recommended load. You should find that your groups will start out kind of spread out and then tighten up at or near the load that your particular rifle likes to digest. I would suggest shooting at no more than 50 yards to pattern these loads. Once you are through shooting, lay all the targets out side-by-side and you should see how the different loads effect the accuracy. Pick the best load and go with it. If you don't get a good group, you'll have to try something different, like a different powder or a different bullet. Experiment until you get a good group with the bullet you are shooting.
As far as what equipment to buy, go to a good black powder shooting supply store in your area and talk with someone who actually shoots black powder. One suggestion from another advice-giver was to get a field rod. Good advice! They are longer and heavier and make the loading job much easier at the range. Once you have the range rod with the appropriate tip(s) for loading, you will need a bullet puller, a patch puller (worm), powder measure, short starter and greased patches if you are shooting round balls. The salesman at the store can help you with that. You also might ask about dedicated black powder shoots in your area. Go to one and you'll have plenty of help the first time you shoot.
BTW, my .54 uses 110 grains of RS to push a T/C 435 gr. Maxi-Hunter out the barrel. When I was working up that load (which is near maximum), I found out that the rifle kicks like a mule! My shoulder was black, blue and yellow for over a week. Good luck on yours.
Just as an FYI you might want to look into picking up one of Cabela's muzzleloader starting kits in .50. I believe they still sell them seperate of the guns. This will give you everything you need outside powder, ball and caps, which you can usually pick up at a well stocked wallyworld (as long as you don't mind using pyrodex).
I also recommend getting one of the CO2 ball dischargers. They take the little cartridges that CO2 airguns use, and when you get a ball stuck downt he barrel with bad/no powder they save a heck of a lot of work, and are a lot safer IMHO than pulling it with a rod (and yes, I've pulled a ball or two with a rod before, rather not again).
I also recommend getting one of the CO2 ball dischargers. They take the little cartridges that CO2 airguns use, and when you get a ball stuck downt he barrel with bad/no powder they save a heck of a lot of work, and are a lot safer IMHO than pulling it with a rod (and yes, I've pulled a ball or two with a rod before, rather not again).