New super quarterbore bullets
- Thread starter stagpanther
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stagpanther
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Just out of curiosity I tried the 133 hybrids in my old 25-06 Savage 1:10 barrel. At 157 yds I saw no evidence of key-holing--but the grouping size was terrible. Might have been something wrong with the way I assembled the scope mount/scope, don't know. Interested in your results. I could seat the hybrids way out there in the 25-06; no problems with COAL to accommodate the bullet's length.
stagpanther
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first test batch
I decided at the last second to switch to VV N560 instead of N565--seemed like a good choice to slow the powder down while getting good ignition characteristics. I started with lower end charges as I'm not interested in pushing these as fast as possible and roasting the bore at the same time. my jump to lands was about .005. By a sheer stroke of luck I got almost exactly what I was hoping for, good consistency while keeping the velocities relatively low. I think that is a big plus. If you look at the labradar readout it is by no means a slouch even at a "pokey" 3000 fps. This was the first time this year I was able to set up the labradar and unfortunately couldn't get out to 200 yds, but still got good data at 170 yds. I violated by personal rule of shooting no more than a dozen cartridges at a time for a hot round, but I spaced the shots out and took a break between charge weights--the barrel got barely warm so I'm hopeful the throat didn't get cooked further. All 3 charge groups were under MOA and the third one was the pick of the litter. I'll do the next 3 groups when are next round of rainy/windy weather is done.
I decided at the last second to switch to VV N560 instead of N565--seemed like a good choice to slow the powder down while getting good ignition characteristics. I started with lower end charges as I'm not interested in pushing these as fast as possible and roasting the bore at the same time. my jump to lands was about .005. By a sheer stroke of luck I got almost exactly what I was hoping for, good consistency while keeping the velocities relatively low. I think that is a big plus. If you look at the labradar readout it is by no means a slouch even at a "pokey" 3000 fps. This was the first time this year I was able to set up the labradar and unfortunately couldn't get out to 200 yds, but still got good data at 170 yds. I violated by personal rule of shooting no more than a dozen cartridges at a time for a hot round, but I spaced the shots out and took a break between charge weights--the barrel got barely warm so I'm hopeful the throat didn't get cooked further. All 3 charge groups were under MOA and the third one was the pick of the litter. I'll do the next 3 groups when are next round of rainy/windy weather is done.
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stagpanther
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stagpanther
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Net speculation seems to be that Hornady would logically be coming out sooner or later with their own cartridge optimized for the new generation of high SD 257 bullets. All I've done is shot just a few loads of this 134 eldm--but it's apparent to me that it's a winner--and I would have to think they will follow shortly with a ELDX for hunting. Some think the cartridge might resemble the 25-7mm PRC, which is the midrange size of the PRCs.
I think that if and when they do introduce a new 25--it will be closer to the 25 PRC blackjack for several reasons. The realm of 3200 or more fps will likely be limited to specialty shooters who really want/need a 1000 yd or more 25 gun which the new 25 bullets are certainly very well capable of--but there will be that overbore penalty limiting the size of that market IMO. The cartridges I just shot above I loaded out to a COAL of 3.925--which resulted in a fairly long jump to lands--even so all three test charges scored under MOA at mild loads; so I think that might point logically to development of an optimized version similar to the 25 PRC blackjack but fits the confines of a short action. That would potentially have a very big and new market niche for a high-performing 25 that won't have you replacing the barrel after 700 shots or so.
Anyway--these are exciting times for the .257.
I think that if and when they do introduce a new 25--it will be closer to the 25 PRC blackjack for several reasons. The realm of 3200 or more fps will likely be limited to specialty shooters who really want/need a 1000 yd or more 25 gun which the new 25 bullets are certainly very well capable of--but there will be that overbore penalty limiting the size of that market IMO. The cartridges I just shot above I loaded out to a COAL of 3.925--which resulted in a fairly long jump to lands--even so all three test charges scored under MOA at mild loads; so I think that might point logically to development of an optimized version similar to the 25 PRC blackjack but fits the confines of a short action. That would potentially have a very big and new market niche for a high-performing 25 that won't have you replacing the barrel after 700 shots or so.
Anyway--these are exciting times for the .257.
stagpanther
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I finished the first round of testing yesterday in less than ideal conditions @ 171 yds, I was shooting into a quartering headwind gusting up and down between 15 to 25 mph so I wasn't expecting stellar results, but I had my labradar set up (but unfortunately got blown around missing a few shots) and main mission was to gather data.
Nonetheless, all 3 charge weights grouped at or just under MOA without me doing any holdover/windage adjustments, so that was kinda nice to see.
This is just the first round for this combo of N560 and 134 eldm, but already there were some pretty interesting trends revealed. All 6 charge weights I tested for grouped under MOA except one--which was right at MOA. All of the charge weights showed extreme spreads around 10 fps +/- with the largest being 14fps. All of the charge weight's Standard deviations were under 10 fps with most around 5 fps +/-. I don't see consistency like this very often across a range of powder charges in a cartridge very often--the only other one I can think of off the top of my head is my 338 Lapua Magnum.
Nonetheless, all 3 charge weights grouped at or just under MOA without me doing any holdover/windage adjustments, so that was kinda nice to see.
This is just the first round for this combo of N560 and 134 eldm, but already there were some pretty interesting trends revealed. All 6 charge weights I tested for grouped under MOA except one--which was right at MOA. All of the charge weights showed extreme spreads around 10 fps +/- with the largest being 14fps. All of the charge weight's Standard deviations were under 10 fps with most around 5 fps +/-. I don't see consistency like this very often across a range of powder charges in a cartridge very often--the only other one I can think of off the top of my head is my 338 Lapua Magnum.
Jim Watson
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Yes, yes, maybe we are getting over the distraction of the Silly Millimeters.
stagpanther
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What's wrong with 6.35 mm?
The Verminator
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I wonder if the new military round (.277 Fury) will outclass anything we can do with the .257???
stagpanther
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Maybe, but you'll be paying for it one way or another. If the .257 was meant to be "multirole" like the fury maybe they would have taken a look at--had the new high SD bullets been around at the time; which they weren't.
If you do some googling for info on any of the new high SD/BC .257s being driven at 3000 - 3200 fps velocity range (very easy to do with a wide range of existing cases) and start comparing the bullet drop, retained energy, wind drift and rate of velocity decay you'll start to see there is a very compelling niche that isn't presently being filled by a commercial .257 factory cartridge.
Even more attractive IMO is even at slower velocities the numbers are still very impressive for what in all likelihood is what probably 99% of shooters would ever need unless they needed to hunt or compete at 800 yds or more. I'm playing around with a mild felt recoil load that tops out under 3100 fps and is truly a pleasure to shoot.
I continued my testing of the new 134 eldm N560 combo today in my "reborn" 25 PRC blackjack, after taking it apart 3 times I still couldn't figure out why I was getting mediocre results in the other stocks I had used it in--but it seems to like sitting in an MDT chassis. For whatever reason, the ED/SD figures were a bit bigger today than yesterday's--maybe something I did in the reloading process.
All three charge weights I tested scored under MOA at 153 yds (I couldn't go out any further) with the last being the best. As a side note the last one was shot as conditions got worse from what the first two groups were shot in with increasing gusty side winds, this combo seemed to buck the wind quite well.
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stagpanther
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It's nice when a rifle tells you it's capable of shooting at a level beyond what you're currently doing, makes the pursuit more interesting and fun.
.georgehwbush
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yep yep yep
FrankenMauser
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Not bad.
You think these would be workable in a .257 Bob?
You think these would be workable in a .257 Bob?
stagpanther
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I don't see why not.
The main issue is that .257 has always been a caliber limited to small bullets intended for hunting, so most quarterbore guns ended up with fairly slow twists. The 25-06 for example has a chamber that can still accommodate the new high SD bullet's length though would probably need a faster twist to handle the heavier new bullets. On that note...
There is also the parallel development of lighter weight solid monolithics like the PVA Seneca which tend to have different characteristics from jacketed bullets and is yet another "frontier" to explore in new high performance .257 bullets. These could potentially be a good choice for those that just have to have an ultra-fast .257. I just ordered a couple of boxes of these "bulldozers" from a custom bullet maker, but I'm guessing other manufacturers will follow suit.
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stagpanther
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duh strikes again
This morning I cleaned the bore, and while doing so I noticed there was an odd rattle to the rifle. I couldn't believe when I found the source--when I put the rifle back together I had forgotten to do the final tightening of the scope mount to the rail, so I wondered how much impact that had on yesterday's shooting. I threw together 5 cartridges of the best charge from yesterday to see if there was any marked difference and shot a couple of foulers first to get the position--sure enough the impacts shifted by about 4 inches.
Shooting again at 153 yds I had my Burris XTR2 set at 9x--so it was kinda hard to see where the bullets were actually landing but I had a feeling I might have a one-holer going after the first 3 shots--which of course gave the "pressure butterflies" to keep it together; and had the opposite effect of making me choke.
Shots 4 and 5 I knew I pulled a bit as the shots broke, I know the lowest impact was one of them but I'm not sure where the other landed but it looked like it stayed with the first three. This is why I have never entered a comp, I tend to get shaken easily with a bad shot--and at the same time tend to break concentration when I got something good going.
This morning I cleaned the bore, and while doing so I noticed there was an odd rattle to the rifle. I couldn't believe when I found the source--when I put the rifle back together I had forgotten to do the final tightening of the scope mount to the rail, so I wondered how much impact that had on yesterday's shooting. I threw together 5 cartridges of the best charge from yesterday to see if there was any marked difference and shot a couple of foulers first to get the position--sure enough the impacts shifted by about 4 inches.
Shooting again at 153 yds I had my Burris XTR2 set at 9x--so it was kinda hard to see where the bullets were actually landing but I had a feeling I might have a one-holer going after the first 3 shots--which of course gave the "pressure butterflies" to keep it together; and had the opposite effect of making me choke.
Shots 4 and 5 I knew I pulled a bit as the shots broke, I know the lowest impact was one of them but I'm not sure where the other landed but it looked like it stayed with the first three. This is why I have never entered a comp, I tend to get shaken easily with a bad shot--and at the same time tend to break concentration when I got something good going.Attachments
stagpanther
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No worries my friend--I'm a threat to nobody unless they threaten me first. And these shots are no-pressure shots from the bench which I had the luxury of all the time in the world to set up each shot--and I choke easy. But it is an inherently good cartridge IMO.
I'm happy to share my experiences with other shooters.