New shooter, question

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Phishermanjohn

Inactive
Hello forum,

I am seriously considering purchasing a handgun in the near future and have a few questions.

First a little background: I have shot .22 and then I shot a .44 MAG revolver. The .22 was fun and the .44 was frustrating. That was a few years ago. After talking with friends, we have decided to buy some handguns for fun shooting, and of course Home defense. I have heard and read a lot about the advantages of 9mm and .40 S&W. I am definately leaning towards the .40 S&W. Especially after renting one at the range yesterday and shooting a few rounds. It just felt good. This was the Smith and Wesson M&P. The only problem is the $550 tag is a bit steep, so I am looking for less expensive alternatives.

Also, I had a problem at the range. I was shooting 8 inches low of where i was aiming. I have no idea why. I was pretty consistant in my grouping for my first time, everything was low when shooting the target. Ideas???
 
most likely, you're flinching. Your nervous system anticipates the shot and tries to compensate just as you pull the trigger.

If you have a laser sight, you can see it happen as the laser dips.
If you have a slide lock and didn't realize it, you can see it happen as the gun dips just as you pull the trigger.

I've been so mean as to give someone an unloaded gun (that they think is loaded) to prove to them that they're doing it.
 
My grandfather always said "Whats your life worth?" When I looked at the price tag on a gun. Especially true with your first. Get a weapon that you are comfortable with and feels good in your hand. Something you will trust. Its got to feel natural and you have to be willing to bet your life on it
 
most likely, you're flinching
Click to expand...
That's probably right it sounds like your anticipating the recoil.
If you want a cheap gun thats reliable and fun to shoot you might look at a Ruger p95.
 
The M&P is a good choice, and $550 isn't a bad deal for it. It's built on the polymer frame, has adjustable backstraps to fit your hand, accessory rail up front if you want to toss something on there. Some people don't like trigger for some reason; I really don't find it to be bad at all. I would also second the motion that you get what you pay for when it comes to firearms, and S&W's are no slouch. If you really want to look lower, consider maybe a Glock (depending on the prices you can find) or an SR9 (dunno if they come in .40 yet). But I would call the M&P in .40-cal a solid buy, one you really wouldn't regret down the line. I also had someone put the line to me, "Guns should you buy should get more valuable as time goes on" y'know if you ever feel like trading up.

For shooting low, yeah, you may be flinching. I would suggest getting a 'snap cap', I believe they're called, so you don't damage the firing pin

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=699937

and do some dry firing exercises with it until you're comfortable getting a slow deliberate pull on the trigger, then go to range. The click of the pin should be a surprise when the gun goes off, just like the actual thing; don't anticipate and don't jerk the trigger. That should help you get used to it.
 
You can probably find a S&W Sigma in either .40 or 9mm for around $300. They're great guns, and IMO, the very best gun for the money.
 
I'd skip the 40 as a 'first gun' due to ammo costs and the harder snap it puts out. Rent a few more guns at the range, then find one used.
 
I agree on the sigma's. SW9VE & SW40VE both can be had for 300 or less. I know many don't like the triger but it doesn't bother me. I own both and I shoot mostly 9mm becasue of ammo prices.
 
The .40 is going to be the best "Bang" for the buck. you'll here a lot about ammo prices, and how expensive .40 is to a 9mm, ask yourself, what's a life worth ? It's not like your going to be shooting up 1000 rds a day or so. I have a 9mm I bought 25 years ago, would'nt give it up, but finally got smart and bought 2 .40s, I carry one with me at all times.:rolleyes:;)
 
There are a few guns that are cheaper than $550 that will meet your needs, but the current rush to buy has driven up prices. While the advice about flinching is probably right, the M&P did have some problems with the factory sights pointing low. I wouldn't recommend the Sigma for a beginner because the trigger is hard to master, but you should be able to find them new for about $300, S&W has a promotion going now.
If a .40 is what you want and you have tried and liked it, go ahead and get one. The points made above about the 9mm are correct, but it will be YOUR gun, get what feels right for you.
Some less expensive guns I would look at are the Ruger P series in used. The price shouldn't be bad and they are tanks. I have a P95, P90, and a P97 and could recommend any of them. The P95 has been a favorite of 2 different girlfriends and has untold thousands of rounds through it and just keeps going. The Taurus Millennium Pro ans 24/7 series are also good guns and are below $500. In my opinion, the sleeper in the pack is the Stoeger Cougar. It is available in 9mm and .40 and should be around $400 new. Beretta designed and marketed this piece as a duty gun and it didn't sell welll and they replaced it with the PX4. They turned the machinery over to Stoeger, a subsidiary, and they shipped it to Turkey and started building it there and selling it for a couple of hundred dollars less. The Cougar is available in .40 and 9mm and may take a little searching to find as it is quite popular. I have one in .40 and it has become my glove compartment gun. Accurate and comfortable for me to shoot, it has been trouble free. I put alot of rounds through all of my guns and this one has impressed me.
The most important thing in buting a handgun is individual fit, it has to feel right in your hand. At least pick up and hold it in your hand and pay attention to how it feels.
 
Welcome to TFL,

First of all, I would recomend against the .40 as well, the ammo is expensive and it is a "snappy" round that could cause you to develop a bad flinch (like you are experiencing now) over time. I would recomend a moderately priced 9mm like a Ruger P-series. Ex: Ruger P89 (first choice) or Ruger P95 (close second). The P95 has a polymer frame and the P89 has an alloy frame. Thats where personal preference comes into play. Do you want a polymer frame gun or a metal frame gun? Check out gunbroker.com to get a feel for prices and to see what the guns look like. Good luck in your search.
 
One thing you may look at is the Springfield XD40. I recommend the 40 over the 9, but that is all personal preference. I trust and am more comfortable with 40. I have seen a few XD40's for under 500$
 
When I am training a new shooter, I don't use the term "flinch" to describe the act of shooting low. While the term might be technically correct, I have found that most new shooters respond better to the thought that they are "pushing" at the moment of trigger release. "Anticipating recoil" is the proper term, also, but telling a new shooter that s/he is pushing the gun when pulling the trigger seems to make a better mental connect.

Most shooters think of an "O'M'GAHD" action when you say "flinch." Most shooters think "I can control that" when you say "You are pushing."

Just a thought. In my experience, most new shooters do push against the gun at the moment of trigger release. Telling them what they are doing usually cures that one. Then you get into ... well, that's another thread. :D

Pops
 
I hear you already wanting a couple of guns, but balking at a price over $550 for either of them.

Odd.

There are people here that like to amasse large collections of Bersas/hi-points/Taurus/etc... but me personally I'd rather sell 3-4 of those (or not buy them in the first place) and have one truly good gun.

Be careful of many of the guns in your price range. Good candidates, however, would include:
Any Glock (17/19/22/23 would be good models)
Any CZ (75B, 75-PCR, P-01, SP-01 would be good models)

Adding a couple hundred dollars more and capping at $750, you get some fantastic options:
Sig Sauer P220/P226/P229/etc
Beretta 92/96
Springfield Armory XD/XDm/XDsc
Springfield Armory MilSpec or Loaded 1911 (though .45 rather than .40)

Get one gun... learn it well, and buy a lifetime's use from it. Then save until you can afford its peer.
 
Well I suppose then this is the perfect place to tell my story instead of starting a new topic.

I have had plenty experience shooting, but never had my own gun. Recently I bought a Glock 23 .40 for $569 plus tax. It's got the olive drab frame and is stock all around besides the Snug Plug I bought for it. Yesterday I shot it for the first time, from 17 ft, and I've got good news and bad news. I haven't been shooting since I was 16 and am now 22. Good news, the gun performed awesome. Bad news, I did not. Like someone else said above, I was flinching, if you could call it that. I was 'pulling' the trigger instead of squeezing it, which 'pulled' all of my shots off to the right or down and to the right. I only had a box of 50 PMC Bronze flat noze FMJ 165gr, and didn't want to shoot the whole box. I decided to shoot eight more rounds and leave 13 for a full clip. So I had eight rounds to get my act together and learn to keep the muzzle frozen in place. I arched my right arm up and locked up the muscles in it to make it as solid as possible, and arranged my grip so that the muzzle flip would be only upward, not to one side or another. The first round I fired was maybe 2mm left of dead on bullseye, literally. I got so excited by that I couldn't focus as hard for the next shots, but my improved technique left me with no more pull to any direction. I can't wait to go again and practice those techniques more.

As for getting a 9mm or a .40, I'd definitely go with a .40, especially if intended for self defense. I've never shot a M&P .40, but you might want to rent a few other handguns in .40 before you set your heart on one. You might want to try using some quality FMJ as your target loads so you can see more of the true performance of the gun instead of getting skewed results from cheap target loads.

Edit: Also, consider the maintenance required for that weapon and the ease of operation. Whether you want external safeties, easy field strip and cleaning, and consider the availability of parts and accessories for that weapon. I'm glad I got a Glock because it's easy to manipulate under stress with no external safeties except the trigger bar, it's easy to field strip and clean, and I can find just about anything I want for it at a reasonable price. Try watching some YouTube videos about the different handguns you're considering, they have videos of firing the weapon, field stripping, and much more for a lot of different handguns.
 
You should consider a .357 magnum. You can shoot .38 Specials in it. It's an excellent SD gun. One thing about a semi auto is you Have to use full power loads or the slide won't cycle. In a revolver you can shoot low power target loads to full house .357 magnum rounds. In other words I think the .357 is a better all around hand gun than either of the two cartridges you mention. You can get a revolver for significantly less money too.
 
get a 22 and a 40.
Shoot the **** out of the 22
shoot the 40 enough to be familiar with it(Clint Smith has a training session for 100 rounds of ammo, mostly practice mag changes and malfunctions)

Did you try the M&P 9? was it the M&P you liked or the 40 S&W cartridge?
you will save a lot of money long term if you do most of your practicing with a 22LR and even now ammo is pretty available at a very reasonable price.
 
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